06 Sep 07
Originally posted by AThousandYoungAgain, it's interesting that the most outspoken people against Paul's legitimacy are those who themselves don't believe in Jesus Christ.
Magic Decoder Ring!
I suspect the bread was made with parts of Jesus mixed in.
I believe there's a temporal gap between Paul and Jesus. Paul never knew Jesus, but he created modern Christianity. I think he changed the nature of the religion to one people were more comfortable with.
Congrats, AThousandYoung, you've joined ahosyney, no1marauder, rwingett, and frogstomp in denying the legitimacy of Christ while also simultaneously denying the legitimacy of Paul. Quite a feat. Could you have any less credibility in this matter?
Everyone who believes in Christ understands that Paul is Holy Spirit led and carries the same apostolic authority as Peter or John.
06 Sep 07
Originally posted by epiphinehasEveryone knows Paul had a Magic Decoder Ring.
Again, it's interesting that the most outspoken people against Paul's legitimacy are those who themselves don't believe in Jesus Christ.
Congrats, AThousandYoung, you've joined ahosyney, no1marauder, rwingett, and frogstomp in denying the legitimacy of Christ while also simultaneously denying the legitimacy of Paul. Quite a feat. Could you have any ...[text shortened]... ands that Paul is Holy Spirit led and carries the same apostolic authority as Peter or John.
Unfortunately I don't. All I have is the Bible.
06 Sep 07
1 edit
Originally posted by AThousandYoungInteresting you should bring this up because there is a decoder ring. The source is the spirit of God. In fact, before Paul's conversion he went around persecuting and killing Christians because he viewed them heretical in comparing their theology to the scriptures. However, after his conversion these things were revealed to him by God. So if you want the decoder ring, the only thing to do is fall on your knees and ask for it. In fact, I had a similar experience in making sense out of scripture. Once I converted, it began to be revealed to me as well.
Everyone knows Paul had a Magic Decoder Ring.
Unfortunately I don't. All I have is the Bible.
06 Sep 07
Originally posted by whodeyOk, fell on my knees, asked for it.
Interesting you should bring this up because there is a decoder ring. The source is the spirit of God. In fact, before Paul's conversion he went around persecuting and killing Christians because he viewed them heretical in comparing their theology to the scriptures. However, after his conversion these things were revealed to him by God. So if you want the ...[text shortened]... nce in making sense out of scripture. Once I converted, it began to be revealed to me as well.
How long before delivery?
06 Sep 07
Originally posted by AThousandYoungI would ignore it if I knew what you were on about. I can't even pick you up on my radar . I understand that you think Jesus was encouraging cannabilism but to me you sound like some crazed teenager who's been playing PS2 games and listening to death metal till 3 in the morning too often. It such a bizarre idea that I wouldn't even know where to start feeling threatened by it I'm so overcome with incredulity.
I am perfectly "for real". Go ahead and ignore what I have to say if it makes you feel better though.
06 Sep 07
1 edit
Originally posted by knightmeisterI am amazed that you can't at least see where I'm coming from. It's quite obvious to me.
I would ignore it if I knew what you were on about. I can't even pick you up on my radar . I understand that you think Jesus was encouraging cannabilism but to me you sound like some crazed teenager who's been playing PS2 games and listening to death metal till 3 in the morning too often. It such a bizarre idea that I wouldn't even know where to start feeling threatened by it I'm so overcome with incredulity.
Maybe I got sent the wrong Decoder Ring?
08 Sep 07
Originally posted by AThousandYoungI'm not doing this.
Oh, which is the correct Bible translation?
What I find most interesting about your response to this thread is how having been presented with an unadulterated vision of the beauty of love and the victory of love in Jesus that you seem to want to distract , confuse and drag his name into the realms of cannabilism etc and get into cul-de-sac arguments about the Bible. I wonder if this image is too beautiful for you? I don't mind admitting that I find it threatening myself and I sometimes feel convicted by the compassion of God because it makes me aware of my own darkness.
Jesus ,to whom children flocked , wins the victory for love. Might will not be shown to be right. All that is glorified now (money , hate, military power, vanity , celebrity etc) will be brought low and all that seems weak now (forgiveness , gentleness , silence , brokeness etc) will be glorified. This is an uncomfortably beautiful message , apparently one that you find too uncomfortable to discuss properly at all.
" A man will run , a man will fall ,
from the sheer face of love,
like a fly from a wall,
it's no secret at all......." The Fly (U2)
08 Sep 07
Originally posted by AThousandYoungSorry for being late, I was very busy last week, I will answer you in the The Muslim Jesus thread, if you want to visit it again.
[b]Talking about the Bible, for me I don't believe in any part of it at all. Nonthing in the Bible is the word of Jesus or GOD.
Neither do I, but I consider it a useful text for historical reasons. That doesn't mean I treat it as if it had perfect historical accuracy, but more as a source to be read critically.
I am interested in the Quran for the same reason.
What parts of it refer to Jesus?[/b]
09 Sep 07
Originally posted by knightmeisterisnt a sunrise across the ocean more beautiful, nothing to do with jesus though, in fact, the buddist belief is we must find love in everything.... that's great than what christ taught, he only found it in love and peace
Whether Christian or Atheist surely we must all agree that Christ's message is a thing of beauty. He subverts power by being born a lowly carpenter , shuns violence , plays with children (who flock to him because children always sense when an adult is available and human) , assures those who thirst for justice and peace and turns a symbol of shame and ...[text shortened]... ing of beauty is he not? What greater dream or inspiring image for humanity can there be?
09 Sep 07
3 edits
Originally posted by eatmybishopFrom what I can tell, the teachings of Gautama and Jesus were essentially the same: love, compassion, justice, truth etc. are the ultimate reality. Delusions formed by the desires of the self keep one from the ultimate reality. These delusions are a form of death that keep one from true life.
isnt a sunrise across the ocean more beautiful, nothing to do with jesus though, in fact, the buddist belief is we must find love in everything.... that's great than what christ taught, he only found it in love and peace
On the other hand, Christianity and Buddhism seem to emphasize self-serving motivations for overcoming the desires for the self: "salvation" for Christianity and "happiness" for Buddhism. I have to believe that the True motivation should be for the sake of love, compassion, justice, truth etc. themselves. For the LOVE of love, compassion, justice, truth etc. I have to believe that the teachings of Guatama and Jesus have been distorted by man.
Just to be clear, I see "Christianity" and "Buddhism" as creations of man and separated to some extent from the teachings of Jesus and Guatama.
Nevertheless, it's the same "beauty".
09 Sep 07
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneI have to believe that the True motivation should be for the sake of love, compassion, justice, truth etc. themselves. Think of one
From what I can tell, the teachings of Gautama and Jesus were essentially the same: love, compassion, justice, truth etc. are the ultimate reality. Delusions formed by the desires of the self keep one from the ultimate reality. These delusions are a form of death that keep one from true life.
On the other hand, Christianity and Buddhism seem to emphasi ...[text shortened]... nt from the teachings of Jesus and Guatama.
Nevertheless, it's the same "beauty".
..But surely within the scope of compassion and love the self is included? If one is motivated by a love for humanity how does one exclude oneself from part of the human family? For each of us there is one person with whom we are given a unique and special opportunity to give love and compassion to. That person is ourselves. We must show love and compasion to all the humans that we know and come into contact with and there is one person who we know more intimately than anyone (us) . You say that we should be compassionate and loving to all but then you always leave one person out , why? Is not our own self just as deserving of love and compassion as any human being? Would you prefer we are neutral towards our self ? Should we hate it? What do you propose should be done with this one individual who is excluded from love and compassion? If you are proposing that we should go round hating our selves but loving others then it will be hell on earth because it won't work. All you will get is false compassion and sanctimonious BS because if you can't even love yourself properly how can you ever learn to love others . It would be like a therapist trying to help someone when they themselves are in a complete mess.
I propose that we follow Jesus's command to love others AS (I repeat AS) we love ourselves and NOT instead of loving ourselves.
09 Sep 07
1 edit
Originally posted by knightmeisterGoo. Read TofO's post again, and this time try not to distort it beyond recognition.
I have to believe that the True motivation should be for the sake of love, compassion, justice, truth etc. themselves. Think of one
..But surely within the scope of compassion and love the self is included? If one is motivated by a love for humanity how does one exclude oneself from part of the human family? For each of us there is one person with w ommand to love others AS (I repeat AS) we love ourselves and NOT instead of loving ourselves.
What do you think is meant by the following verses?
"Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. "
"He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it..."
10 Sep 07
Originally posted by LemonJelloWhat do you think is meant by the following verses?
Goo. Read TofO's post again, and this time try not to distort it beyond recognition.
What do you think is meant by the following verses?
"Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. "
"He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it..."
"Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. "
"He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it..." LEMONJELLO
This tells me a lot about you in that you are talking about things you don't believe and quoting a guy who you presumably think was deluded to support your argument. I find myself wondering what YOU think about what he said and whether you feel ready to lose your life to Jesus.(which i doubt)
Now to answer your question . There is no suggestion whatsoever that any Chrsitian is meant to continue their walk with God in a spirit of self hatred or self loathing. Infact it would be a sin to do so. What Jesus is talking about here is the initial stages of conversion where one is overwhelmed with awareness of one's own sin and pride. Do not confuse love of the true self with egotism. Did not the NT talk about the old self and the new self born again in christ? Do you think I am saying we are to love the old self or new self?
Ask yourself this , do you really really think that the more you hate yourself the more loving to other you become ? My expereince is the opposite. Self hate fills you with negativity and makes you grumpy , unapproachable. How is one to offer love and compassion to others if you cannot offer it fully to your own self? If you think self love is arrogance or smug egotism you don't really know what true self love is.