20 May 11
1 edit
Originally posted by Agergi dont believe in any of those things, first the garden was not magic, neither was the
fantasy filled world? ;]
Thats a bit rich coming from a bloke who believes a magic garden with magic trees (equipped with magic knowledge of good and evil fruits no less!), and talking serpents actually existed 6000 years ago! 😵
tree in the middle of the garden and snakes dont talk. I simply believe we are
beautiful.
20 May 11
Originally posted by galveston75Please explain what it was, specifically, about my post that was "silly"
If your trying to impress me with all this sillyness it ain't going to work. You just go on and have faith in yourself and your infinite wisdom that you think you have over God's and just go on being a happy little human. It seems the smaller we are the more we think we know? Right? Lol.
20 May 11
Originally posted by robbie carrobieTrees of knowledge of good and evil aren't magic? Could it be the case that one could plant a tree of knowledge of good and evil without abusing the standard laws of nature?
i dont believe in any of those things, first the garden was not magic, neither was the
tree in the middle of the garden and snakes dont talk. I simply believe we are
beautiful.
20 May 11
2 edits
Originally posted by Agergthe tree had no magical properties, the fruit had no magical properties, where you get
Trees of knowledge of good and evil aren't magic? Could it be the case that one could plant a tree of knowledge of good and evil without abusing the standard laws of nature?
that from, one can only wonder. That the tree itself was merely symbolic of Gods
sovereignty is readily discernible. Please note that word, symbolic! of Gods
sovereignty. Its important if you are to understand anything within the Biblical context.
20 May 11
2 edits
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI got it from Genesis, and using the New World Translation (your version of the Bible right?) it says
the tree had no magical properties, the fruit had no magical properties, where you get
that from, one can only wonder. That the tree itself was merely symbolic of Gods
sovereignty is readily discernible. Please note that word, symbolic! of Gods
sovereignty. Its important if you are to understand anything within the Biblical context.
15 And Jehovah God proceeded to take the man and settle him in the garden of E´den to cultivate it and to take care of it. 16 And Jehovah God also laid this command upon the man: “From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. 17 But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die.”
1 Now the serpent proved to be the most cautious of all the wild beasts of the field that Jehovah God had made. So it began to say to the woman: “Is it really so that God said YOU must not eat from every tree of the garden?” (talking snake alert!!! 😲 ) 2 At this the woman said to the serpent: “Of the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat. 3 But as for [eating] of the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the garden, God has said, ‘YOU must not eat from it, no, YOU must not touch it that YOU do not die.’” 4 At this the serpent said to the woman: “YOU positively will not die. 5 For God knows that in the very day of YOUR eating from it YOUR eyes are bound to be opened and YOU are bound to be like God, KNOWING good and bad.”
Consequently the woman saw that the tree was good for food and that it was something to be longed for to the eyes, yes, the tree was desirable to look upon. So she began taking of its fruit and eating it. Afterward she gave some also to her husband when with her and he began eating it. 7 Then the eyes of both of them became opened and they began to realize that they were naked. Hence they sewed fig leaves together and made loin coverings for themselves. (Looks like the fruit actually imparted unto them the idea they should cover themselves up)
8 Later they heard the voice of Jehovah God walking in the garden about the breezy part of the day, and the man and his wife went into hiding from the face of Jehovah God in between the trees of the garden. 9 And Jehovah God kept calling to the man and saying to him: “Where are you?” 10 Finally he said: “Your voice I heard in the garden, but I was afraid because I was naked and so I hid myself.” 11 At that he said: “Who told you that you were naked? From the tree from which I commanded you not to eat have you eaten?” 12 And the man went on to say: “The woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave me [fruit] from the tree and so I ate.” 13 With that Jehovah God said to the woman: “What is this you have done?” To this the woman replied: “The serpent—it deceived me and so I ate.”
14 And Jehovah God proceeded to say to the serpent: “Because you have done this thing, you are the cursed one out of all the domestic animals and out of all the wild beasts of the field. Upon your belly you will go and dust is what you will eat all the days of your life. 15 And I shall put enmity between you and the woman and between your seed and her seed. He will bruise you in the head and you will bruise him in the heel.”
16 To the woman he said: “I shall greatly increase the pain of your pregnancy; in birth pangs you will bring forth children, and your craving will be for your husband, and he will dominate you.”
17 And to Adam he said: “Because you listened to your wife’s voice and took to eating from the tree concerning which I gave you this command, ‘You must not eat from it,’ cursed is the ground on your account. In pain you will eat its produce all the days of your life. 18 And thorns and thistles it will grow for you, and you must eat the vegetation of the field. 19 In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”
I'm seeing little that can be taken for symbolism here Robbie, especially if you believe in the literal truth of the rest of Genesis (i.e. creation of the world in 6 days and so on...)!
20 May 11
3 edits
Originally posted by AgergAgers, when one reads a portion of scripture, one must of course look at it in its immediate context and then, in the context of the Bible as a whole. That the tree was real is clearly evident, that it represented something is also clearly evident. That the snake was used as a tool of Satan who manipulated it as a ventriloquist does a dummy is also discernible from other parts of the Bible, for example,
I got it from Genesis, and using the New World Translation (your version of the Bible right?) it says
15 And Jehovah God proceeded to take the man and settle him in the garden of E´den to cultivate it and to take care of it. 16 And Jehovah God also laid this command upon the man: “From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. 17 But as for t n the literal truth of the rest of Genesis (i.e. creation of the world in 6 days and so on...)!
(Revelation 12:9) . . .So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth;. . .
so you see, it wasn't really a talking snake at all, it was Satan using the snake in some deceptive manner to make it appear, as if it were talking! How many times must i say this? snakes dont talk! Oh dear Agers, one must look at the constituent parts so as to form a clear picture of the whole! its late i must to bed! Good evening and keep reading scripture it will do you the world of good!
21 May 11
3 edits
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThe snake being controlled by satan as you suggest must still have had the capacity for articulating sounds and words that would be understood by Eve, and visually conveying emotion in its demeanor such that it would be seen to be sincere in its deception, unless you next tell me that Satan was also throwing his voice, and had trained this snake to perform on command! If that's the case, then the lengths you're willing to go in order not to have a talking snake are more absurd than just supposing it was and carrying on anyway. ;]
Agers, when one reads a portion of scripture, one must of course look at it in its immediate context and then, in the context of the Bible as a whole. That the tree was real is clearly evident, that it represented something is also clearly evident. That the snake was used as a tool of Satan who manipulated it as a ventriloquist does a dummy is also late i must to bed! Good evening and keep reading scripture it will do you the world of good!
Moreover the "Great dragon" part sounds far more a symbolic allusion to an actual deceptive talking snake than the talking snake so described in genesis being symbolic of a great dragon.
21 May 11
1 edit
Originally posted by Agergdoes a ventriloquist dummy have that capacity of speech? hardly! now pucker up and get real dear Agers, snakes do not talk! are snakes able to be controlled by even mere humans? and you doubt the ability of a supernatural entity to do the same, sigh, must i lead you by the hand to these waters of truth dear Agers! snakes do not talk, the scriptures state that the original serpent was Satan, you can either except that of reject it, its clear to me, now goodnight!
The snake being controlled by satan as you suggest must still have had the capacity for articulating sounds and words that would be understood by Eve, and visually conveying emotion in its demeanor such that it would be seen to be sincere in its deception, unless you next tell me that Satan was also throwing his voice, and had trained this snake to perform on command! ;]
21 May 11
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI doubt snakes can actually be made to look like they are talking by mere humans. Indeed get a dictaphone, record yourself taking for 5 minutes, and then go out and 'talk to people' just by moving your lips up and down at the same tempo as the words - I'm sure people would give you funny looks. ;]
does a ventriloquist dummy have that capacity of speech? hardly! now pucker up and get real dear Agers, snakes do not talk! are snakes able to be controlled by even mere humans? and you doubt the ability of a supernatural entity to do the same, sigh, must i lead you by the hand to these waters of truth dear Agers! snakes do not talk, the scripture ...[text shortened]... inal serpent was Satan, you can either except that of reject it, its clear to me, now goodnight!
21 May 11
2 edits
Originally posted by Agergindeed, the perfect deception to get and maintain someone's attention, dont you think. who said its lips moved, if you were alone in a garden and you heard a voice and could see no other creature but a snake staring at you, would you not also be giving it your attention?
I doubt snakes can actually be made to look like they are talking by mere humans. Indeed get a dictaphone, record yourself taking for 5 minutes, and then go out and 'talk to people' just by moving your lips up and down at the same tempo as the words - I'm sure people would give you funny looks. ;]
21 May 11
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI doubt it, I'd look at a snake crappily made to appear as though it was talking and check to see who had their arm inside it. Then I'd be suspicious. Moreover, if there are no signs of external manipulation, then for all intents and purposes, the snake is talking. ;]
indeed, the perfect deception to get and maintain someone's attention, dont you think.
21 May 11
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneI wouldn't rule that out as a possibility.
Where do you stand on the idea of God having created biological life initially with all other life (higher life forms) having been created via the process of evolution? In other words that God "created" higher life forms via evolution? Under such a scenario, there'd be no reason to be anti-evolution.
