The value of Jesus

@rajk999 said
Oh ... the 'personal relationship' thing.
Not the obeying of the commandments
Lol .. I get it.

No, you don't get it! Obeying Christ is always on the table, never is it off. You want to use your works as your righteousness, that is iniquity! We are saved by our redeemer, we obey our Lord out of love.

@kellyjay said
No, you don't get it! Obeying Christ is always on the table, never is it off. You want to use your works as your righteousness, that is iniquity! We are saved by our redeemer, we obey our Lord out of love.

Never seen you tell anyone to obey the commandments though. Its been over 10 yrs and you never once told a single soul that the commandments must be kept. Strange. You find time for every other topic under the sun. Strange love you have for Christ.

@rajk999 said
Never seen you tell anyone to obey the commandments though. Its been over 10 yrs and you never ones told a single soul that the commandments must be kept. Strange. You find time for every other topic under the sun. Strange love you have for Christ.

I'd say that has more to do with you only seeing what you want instead of what is written. I repeatedly tell you we obey Christ, we are to do what Jesus said, lay down our lives for Him, pickup our crosses and follow Him. Love God with all of our heart and our neighbor as ourselves. This does mean we look at everyone's needs around us, no one loves another without helping them where they require it. You spend more time talking about others with nothing but your imagination feeding you what you want to believe instead of what is said.

@sonship said
I think that rajk999 often gets the sympathy of atheist posters here because he is of the world and speaks out worldly philosophy, and the world hears him.

I think Rajk999 teaches about following Jesus and obeying His commandments. If non-believers can recognize goodness and common sense in Jesus' teachings and in doing good works, I don't see how you labelling it a "worldly philosophy" is quite the smear you seem to think it is. You peddle a profoundly superstitious - but also narcissistic and misanthropic - Think Your Way To Heaven/Torturer God ideology; and you wonder why your notions are seen as largely irrelevant by atheists?

@kellyjay said
Obeying Christ is always on the table, never is it off. You want to use your works as your righteousness, that is iniquity! We are saved by our redeemer, we obey our Lord out of love.

So, are followers of Jesus obliged to obey his commandments and do good works?

@kellyjay said
Love God with all of our heart and our neighbor as ourselves.

I am your neighbour here in this community. Do you love me as you love yourself?

@FMF

I think Rajk999 teaches about following Jesus and obeying His commandments.

Rajk999 thinks a personal relationship with Christ is frivolous.

The New Testament does not. It says "He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit". That is exquisitely intimate. It is a union is life.

His "follow the commandments of Jesus" is filled with the thought of doing the best you can and maybe God will full up the shortage.

It is not a matter of me teaching disobedience to Christ's commands. It is a matter of the world hating to accept admitting that we are born into the world at the bottom rung of the ladder and cannot lift ourselves up a few notches higher for God to accept our improvement.

The parable of the prodigal son shows him coming to himself and returning to his father all ready with a big speech on how he has come back to be not a son but a hired servant.

"But when he came to himself, he said, How many of my father's hired servants abound in bread, but I am perishing here in famine!

I will rise up and go to my father, and I will say to him, Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired servants.

And he rose up and came to his own father. But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was moved with compassion, and he ran and fell on his neck and kissed him affectionately.

And the son said to him, Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you; I am no longer worthy to be called your son.

But the father said to his slaves, Bring out quickly the best rob and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand and sandals on his feet.

And bring the fattened calf, slaughter it, and let us eat and be marry. Because this son of mine was dead and lives again;

and he was lost and has been found. And they began to be merry" (Luke 15:17-24)

Obedience has its place, no doubt. Here though, Christ emphasizes that the dead son came alive, and the lost son was found. Rajk999's concept is saturated with the thought of the prodigal son having to self improve some BEFORE he could return to the father's house.

He strongly, STRONGLY attacks those who speak of this receiving grace of God.

I am going to open a thread on Luke 15:11-32 to emphasize that it teaches how the Father receives the dead son to be alive again.

If non-believers can recognize goodness and common sense in Jesus' teachings and in doing good works, I don't see how you labelling it a "worldly philosophy" is quite the smear you seem to think it is.

I see this coming from you to be a lopsided and biased concern.
Did you ever once similarly adjust Rajk999 for threatening that I am damned, Satanic, brain washed, in a dangerous cult because along with kingdom obedience I emphasized the eternal life as the gift of God?

And I think the reason for the disproportional concern is that your atheistic viewpoint welcomes a God-less, Savior-less self improvement philosophy quite not in need of God or God's salvation by grace.

@sonship said
Rajk999 thinks a personal relationship with Christ is frivolous.

I think he finds a lot of the talk of a "personal relationship" to be a kind of narcissistic spiritual psychobabble which lays down a smokescreen to disguise the lack of obligation to walk the walk. And he makes the case pretty well.

@sonship said
It is a matter of the world hating to accept admitting that we are born into the world at the bottom rung of the ladder and cannot lift ourselves up a few notches higher for God to accept our improvement.

No need to portray yourself as so impotent. Jesus' commandments and good works are the way to approach the "ladder" ~ for everyone, I'd say, even those who don't believe in the magical and mythological parts of the folklore. Christianity is a code for living one's life, or it is nothing.

Folks what good work did you do to be born ?

Schools is good.
College is good.
An employment job is also very good.

Did you have to fill any of these requirements in order to be born?
Of course you did not.

The new birth in the Spirit is there for the receiving. The requirement has been done by Christ. We receive Him that He may cause a new birth to take place in us.

"As many as received Him, to them He gave the authority to become children of God, to those who believe into His name,

Who were BEGOTTEN not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." (John 1:12,13)

What can I bring to God for this re-birth? Only an open heart to receive the living and available Jesus Christ.

@sonship said
Did you ever once similarly adjust Rajk999 for threatening that I am damned, Satanic, brain washed, in a dangerous cult because along with kingdom obedience I emphasized the eternal life as the gift of God?

Well, I don't believe in "Satan", but if he does exist, Rakj999 may well be right. As for how dangerous you are: I don't think you should take your noxious torturer god ideology and be presenting it to vulnerable people or children.

@sonship said
And I think the reason for the disproportional concern is that your atheistic viewpoint welcomes a God-less, Savior-less self improvement philosophy quite not in need of God or God's salvation by grace.

You have nothing to offer non-believers. Your brand of religion is just thinking about yourself and thinking about your God figure. Your self-obsessed doublepusgoodthink theology offers them nothing.

@FMF

I think he finds a lot of the talk of a "personal relationship" to be a kind of narcissistic spiritual psychobabble which lays down a smokescreen to disguise the lack of obligation to walk the walk. And he makes the case pretty well.

Oh dear, "psychobabble," "mumbo jumbo," "waffle," ... etc.

Nice try to view discipleship to Jesus as Narcissism. But it is the malignant self love that one is unwilling to lay down the independent soul life that the eternal love in the eternal Lover may save.

Every form of life is dependent.
Only God is self existing and ever existing.

Human's need a completion in being joined to God in life union.

@sonship said
Oh dear, "psychobabble," "mumbo jumbo," "waffle," ... etc.

Nice try to view discipleship to Jesus as Narcissism. But it is the malignant self love that one is unwilling to lay down the independent soul life that the eternal love in the eternal Lover may save.

You don't like the term "psychobabble", OK, but you do like the term "malignant self-love", I see.

The term "narcissism" refers to your belief that the speculation about supernatural things - and the package of religious dogmas attendant thereto - that is convincing enough for you, is somehow self-evidently good enough for every other human being too.

This is in harness with your belief that those who lack the beliefs that you profess deserve to be brutalized in a demented way, for eternity, after they die - a vengeance for not seeing life and the world the same as you do that you describe as "the perfect morality".

The term "narcissistic" refers to that.

@sonship said
Human's need a completion in being joined to God in life union.

Just to be clear, do you acknowledge you have read this expression of my point of view about Rajk999, and that you understood it? ...

"I think he finds a lot of the talk of a "personal relationship" to be a kind of narcissistic spiritual psychobabble which lays down a smokescreen to disguise the lack of obligation to walk the walk. And he makes the case pretty well."

I can't tell for sure from your response if you read it and understood it.