@josephw saidGod can baptize anyone with both water and the Spirit if he so chooses. The church baptize with water, and fool people with the idea they are also baptized with the Spirit or born of the Spirit. But that is a nonsense doctrine. God alone can baptize with the Spirit.
In regards to spirituality, or the supernatural, if in fact being "born again" makes a distinction between those who are and those who aren't, what does it mean if one is or isn't?
I'll reserve my comments for replies.
Jesus in a private conversation with Nicodemus said:
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. (John 3:6-8 KJV)
Those who are born of the Spirit are not flesh and blood beings. They are Spirit beings who can move like the wind. So nobody on this planet are born of the Spirit. All here are flesh and blood.
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@rajk999 saidGod alone can baptize with the Spirit.
God can baptize anyone with both water and the Spirit if he so chooses. The church baptize with water, and fool people with the idea they are also baptized with the Spirit or born of the Spirit. But that is a nonsense doctrine. God alone can baptize with the Spirit.
Jesus in a private conversation with Nicodemus said:
[i]That which is born of the flesh is fle ...[text shortened]... move like the wind. So nobody on this planet are born of the Spirit. All here are flesh and blood.
I'm not so sure about that. Scripture also says: "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned." Mark 16. This would suggest the holy spirit is very much present in a baptism.
@mchill saidDid you notice your Mark 16 passage has nothing about Spirit. That passage refers to water baptism which anyone can do. So we have:
God alone can baptize with the Spirit.
I'm not so sure about that. Scripture also says: "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned." Mark 16. This would suggest the holy spirit is very much present in a baptism.
- Born of Water
- Born of the Spirit
You ignored the passage where Jesus explains the difference between the two. I will post it up again:
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. (John 3:5-8 KJV)
Born of water is straightforward - thats water baptism. Born of the Spirit - Jesus said the person becomes like a spirit being. Just like how you have flesh and blood people, humans, born of the Spirit is a spirit being which can move like the wind. Did you read it?
Having the Holy Spirit, or Holy Spirit gifts, is NOT BORN OF THE SPIRIT.
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@rajk999 saidDid you notice your Mark 16 passage has nothing about Spirit.
Did you notice your Mark 16 passage has nothing about Spirit. That passage refers to water baptism which anyone can do. So we have:
- Born of Water
- Born of the Spirit
You ignored the passage where Jesus explains the difference between the two. I will post it up again:
[i]Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit ...[text shortened]... wind. Did you read it?
Having the Holy Spirit, or Holy Spirit gifts, is NOT BORN OF THE SPIRIT.
Yes, I did. I also noticed it did not specifically state the spirit was absent either.
I'm not saying you're wrong, only that you're going to have a tough time proving God alone can baptize with the spirit.
@mchill saidA passage does not have to identify exclusions. That is a ridiculous notion. The passage says nothing about Spirit/spirit.
Did you notice your Mark 16 passage has nothing about Spirit.
Yes, I did. I also noticed it did not specifically state the spirit was absent either.
I'm not saying you're wrong, only that you're going to have a tough time proving God alone can baptize with the spirit.
I think I made the point that Born of the Spirit, is not having the Holy Spirit after baptism. Jesus said someone born of the Spirit moves like the wind ..
- What is born of the flesh is flesh.
- What is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Do you understand the difference? Only God can convert a man to a spirit being that is not flesh. Paul said in the twinkling of an eye the saints will be converted :
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. (1 Corinthians 15:51-53 KJV)
This is the point at which the righteous is changed from flesh to spirit. Only God does that. You are confusing water baptism and God giving his Holy Spirit to the saints with being BORN OF THE SPIRIT..
@mchill saidGod is the Holy Spirit; one and the same. There aren’t three gods, three people, three personages. He is one, hear oh Israel the lord your god is one.
God alone can baptize with the Spirit.
I'm not so sure about that. Scripture also says: "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned." Mark 16. This would suggest the holy spirit is very much present in a baptism.
I thought we’d heard the last of this nonsense trinity doctrine in here.
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@josephw saidWe are born into Adam's family, and as such corrupt due to sin nature. Born again is a divine act of God, being born into God's family, where we receive the Spirit of God taking on a new nature, God's. If we don't have God's Spirit, we don't belong to God, this again is a work of God.
In regards to spirituality, or the supernatural, if in fact being "born again" makes a distinction between those who are and those who aren't, what does it mean if one is or isn't?
I'll reserve my comments for replies.
273d
@kellyjay saidWell said.
We are born into Adam's family, and as such corrupt due to sin nature. Born again is a divine act of God, being born into God's family, where we receive the Spirit of God taking on a new nature, God's. If we don't have God's Spirit, we don't belong to God, this again is a work of God.
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@suzianne saidgennaō = born. In the context of John 3:3-8 it means "of God making men/women his sons/daughters through faith in Christ's work.
Skipping past all the hoohaa in this thread, the phrase "Born Again" simply means "Reborn". One becomes a new person. A re-dedication of one's life to Christ.
anōthen = again. Outline of Biblical Usage:
from above, from a higher place
of things which come from heaven or God
from the first, from the beginning, from the very first
anew, over again.
I agree with your statement.
@divegeester saidObviously, unless you're just in a fog, you're obfuscating the thread topic.
God is the Holy Spirit; one and the same. There aren’t three gods, three people, three personages. He is one, hear oh Israel the lord your god is one.
I thought we’d heard the last of this nonsense trinity doctrine in here.
Your post is irrelevant, even to the post you're replying to.
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@suzianne saidBorn again is more than a human being deciding to be a better person, even better in Jesus' name! You don't need religion for that, and Jesus would not be required if it is only being done in His name.
Skipping past all the hoohaa in this thread, the phrase "Born Again" simply means "Reborn". One becomes a new person. A re-dedication of one's life to Christ.
What is required to be born-again is Jesus, it does mean that one does become a new person with a divine act of God giving us new life from the source of life God.