The god who burns people alive for eternity

@divegeester said
I feel compelled to highlight that this thread’s OP is not seeking a metaphysical truth, it is seeking honesty and principled posting from three of the hellfire and eternal suffering protagonists in this forum.

No need. They don't know.
And neither do you.

@chaney3 said
No need. They don't know.
And neither do you.

Whoosh!

@divegeester said
I feel compelled to highlight that this thread’s OP is not seeking a metaphysical truth, it is seeking honesty and principled posting from three of the hellfire and eternal suffering protagonists in this forum.

Please read the large number of different posters who are NOT the people you have directed the OP towards . I just cannot find where you corrected anyone else except my post . You have even replied to some of these posters without any admonition for their posts not being in the spirit of your OP .
Wake up .

@ghost-of-a-duke said
'IF' a loving God exists, I do not consider it logical that such a loving God would torment people for all eternity.

BINGO!

Who would have thought a loving God would create a universe in which humans, created in God's own image and likeness, if they should fail to correspond to God's character and nature, would be separated from the life of God forever in outer darkness?

Logically inconceivable, especially for a human that has jettisoned the notion that they were made in the image and likeness of an all-knowing creator.

What is not logical is for a human to believe they know enough of anything to draw the conclusion that there does not exists an infinite mind capable of doing absolutely anything it chooses.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
(Probably the weakest post I have read from you in this forum).

Take note that the "loving God" you deny exists has chosen the weak and foolish things of this world to confound the wise and mighty.

1 Corinthians 1:27
But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

@secondson said
What is not logical is for a human to believe they know enough of anything to draw the conclusion that there does not exists an infinite mind capable of doing absolutely anything it chooses.

Be that as it may, but the real stretch comes when you insist that such a creator has contacted the human race ~ by way of the ancient Hebrews ~ and has issued instructions, promised rewards, and threatened punishments. The speculation about the nature of that supposed creator being sounds very manmade to me. It doesn't sound like "infinite mind" stuff at all.

@secondson said
Take note that the "loving God" you deny exists has chosen the weak and foolish things of this world to confound the wise and mighty.

1 Corinthians 1:27
But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

Hello SecondSon, welcome back.

I am awaiting your promised “serious and considered” response to my OP.

@caissad4 said
Please read the large number of different posters who are NOT the people you have directed the OP towards . I just cannot find where you corrected anyone else except my post . You have even replied to some of these posters without any admonition for their posts not being in the spirit of your OP .
Wake up .

Your offence here indicates that I haven’t explained myself very well in my previous post to you. I am not in any way admonishing you, I’m simply pointing out that my OP is not seeking “truth” in terms of ultimate truth of heaven and hell, it is simply seeking unequivocal honestly, principle and forthrightness from the three protagonists. My gambit and contention is that we won’t get it from them for reasons stated.

You are of course most welcome to use this thread to pitch questions of ultimate truth or the lack of it it you wish.

Sorry for raising your prickles.

@divegeester said
Your offence here indicates that I haven’t explained myself very well in my previous post to you. I am not in any way admonishing you, I’m simply pointing out that my OP is not seeking “truth” in terms of ultimate truth of heaven and hell, it is simply seeking unequivocal honestly, principle and forthrightness from the three protagonists. My gambit and contention is that ...[text shortened]... itch questions of ultimate truth or the lack of it it you wish.

Sorry for raising your prickles.

So you are not seeking truth, but instead want to argue over differing opinions, in which we will never know who's right.

Seek the truth, then debate. You have no idea if your view is correct.

@chaney3 said
So you are not seeking truth, but instead want to argue over differing opinions, in which we will never know who's right.

Seek the truth, then debate. You have no idea if your view is correct.

A debate and discussion forum like this is a marketplace for ideas about what the truth might be, and "differing opinions" are its lifeblood. Your post reads like you're posting words for posting-words' sake.

@secondson said
BINGO!

Who would have thought a loving God would create a universe in which humans, created in God's own image and likeness, if they should fail to correspond to God's character and nature, would be separated from the life of God forever in outer darkness?

Logically inconceivable, especially for a human that has jettisoned the notion that they were made in the image a ...[text shortened]... clusion that there does not exists an infinite mind capable of doing absolutely anything it chooses.

Would God throw himself into hell, to suffer in torment for all eternity?

The problem you have is that the bible itself has set out God's morality. It has nothing to do with human logic. Through the bible, God tells us to 'love thy neighbour as thyself.' - So again, would such a loving God, who advocates such an application of love cast people into eternal torment?

Really?

@secondson said
Take note that the "loving God" you deny exists has chosen the weak and foolish things of this world to confound the wise and mighty.

1 Corinthians 1:27
But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

Below is the sentence you dissected out of my post when you replied to it. (For reasons only known to yourself).

'As a human, I have a thorough understanding of the terms 'loving' and 'eternal torment' and enough logic to ascertain that the two are not compatible.'

@chaney3 said
So you are not seeking truth, but instead want to argue over differing opinions, in which we will never know who's right.

Seek the truth, then debate. You have no idea if your view is correct.

Your inability to comprehend the pitch and dynamics of this thread is revealing of why most of your OPs and posts in here are akin to a 7 year old bowling to Ian Botham.

@divegeester said
I look forward to reading your serious considered thoughts, which I hope will at the very include your unequivocal stance on the challenge in the OP.

Your opening gambit.

"I contest that the doctrine of death, the doctrine of eternal suffering as laid out by those who believe in it and as it has been discussed in dozens of threads over years in this forum, fundamentally describes a version of the Christian God, including the “Lamb” (Jesus) overseeing the deliberate, purposeful burning alive of what will effectively be billions of non-christians who are supernaturally kept alive to endure this suffering for eternity. That is the actual outworking of this doctrine."

"I contest that the doctrine of death, the doctrine of eternal suffering as laid out by those who believe in it..."

If you, divegeester, sincerely want to know what my position and belief is with regards to the terms you've used, then let me make myself perfectly clear.

I find no "doctrine of death" or "doctrine of eternal suffering" mentioned in scripture. Those terms, as you have phrased them, occur nowhere in the Bible.

My point is this; what I "believe" relative to "doctrine" is strictly governed by the clear and unequivocal specific wording and narrative of God's Word. Deviating from the specific language in any way is dangerous and causes confusion and misunderstanding.

Omitting a word, adding a word or in any other way rearranging the terms is the method of the devil for the purposes of deception.

I'll have no part in it.

Look at what you said in your "opening gambit". Your argument is based on the points you make using language, phraseology and terms not found in scripture. You have added to and taken from the narrative of the Bible, which effectively mischaracterizes the meaning and intent of the passages of scripture from which you drew them.

By deviating from the word specific narrative of scripture, and adopting a view of "eternal punishment" not consistent with it, you have generated a misguided bias against anyone you think has the idea that Jesus is actually watching, and maybe even enjoying, human beings suffering in the most unimaginable torment and pain conceivable.

That's nonsense.

But "separation" from God forever isn't nonsense, and is clearly taught in the Bible.

Question is, what does that "separation" entail? Will those that are "cast into the lake of fire" remain there "alive" forever? Is there physical pain associated with it?

You are of the opinion that death is final. That the language used to describe the fate of the dead is metaphorical and that what the terms mean really points to annihilation.

My opinion? I hope you're right.

My belief? That's not what the Bible teaches.

But I also don't believe the Bible teaches that the damned are set on fire and burn in lava in total agonizing pain and suffering for all eternity while we all sit around being entertained by it.

"Outer darkness" is not a metaphor. It is as real as heaven. That's what I believe, and I don't want anyone to go there. No effing way.

And neither does God.

@secondson said
Your opening gambit.

[b]"I contest that the doctrine of death, the doctrine of eternal suffering as laid out by those who believe in it and as it has been discussed in dozens of threads over years in this forum, fundamentally describes a version of the Christian God, including the “Lamb” (Jesus) overseeing the deliberate, purposeful burning alive of what will effectively ...[text shortened]... the doctrine of death, the doctrine of eternal suffering as laid out by those who believe in it..."

If you, divegeester, sincerely want to know what my position and belief is with regards to the terms you've used, then let me make myself perfectly clear.

I find no "doctrine of death" or "doctrine of eternal suffering" mentioned in scripture. Those terms, as you have phrased them, occur nowhere in the Bible.

My point is this; what I "believe" relative to "doctrine" is strictly governed by the clear and unequivocal specific wording and narrative of God's Word. Deviating from the specific language in any way is dangerous and causes confusion and misunderstanding.

Omitting a word, adding a word or in any other way rearranging the terms is the method of the devil for the purposes of deception.

I'll have no part in it.

Look at what you said in your "opening gambit". Your argument is based on the points you make using language, phraseology and terms not found in scripture. You have added to and taken from the narrative of the Bible, which effectively mischaracterizes the meaning and intent of the passages of scripture from which you drew them.

By deviating from the word specific narrative of scripture, and adopting a view of "eternal punishment" not consistent with it, you have generated a misguided bias against anyone you think has the idea that Jesus is actually watching, and maybe even enjoying, human beings suffering in the most unimaginable torment and pain conceivable.

That's nonsense.

But "separation" from God forever isn't nonsense, and is clearly taught in the Bible.

Question is, what does that "separation" entail? Will those that are "cast into the lake of fire" remain there "alive" forever? Is there physical pain associated with it?

You are of the opinion that death is final. That the language used to describe the fate of the dead is metaphorical and that what the terms mean really points to annihilation.

My opinion? I hope you're right.

My belief? That's not what the Bible teaches.

But I also don't believe the Bible teaches that the damned are set on fire and burn in lava in total agonizing pain and suffering for all eternity while we all sit around being entertained by it.

"Outer darkness" is not a metaphor. It is as real as heaven. That's what I believe, and I don't want anyone to go there. No effing way.

And neither does God.

Why have you never confronted those Christians here who insist that those not "saved" will be tormented in burning flames for eternity?