23 Jul 07
Originally posted by knightmeisterInteresting thought.
I think you have exaggerated things somewhat and ignored other elements of God as portrayed in the OT but there is definitely this strand to the OT God. In the OT God is vengeful and violent and generally a part projection of Jewish nationalism and culture.
You know what , since the Jewish perception of God was skewed and faulty , I think God shoul ...[text shortened]... ting on about the OT God as if that is actually what he is really like and we have no defence.
So, looking back to the whole Jericho incident, would you say that
A) God did indeed instruct the Jews to slaughter every man, woman, and child in the city (extrapolating from Joshua's statement that the city was under God's ban),
B) Joshua misinterpreted God's ban on the city when he told the Israelites to kill everything in the city apart from Rahab,
C) the people misinterpreted Joshua or God in killing everything apart from Rahab, or
D) is it more credible that the writer ascribed the source of that action to God in an attempt to justify what the army did?
I'm sure you can see what the implications are: the enduring justness of God derives from different things in each interpretation. Some of them are less troubling, others more so.
23 Jul 07
Originally posted by ivanhoeWhat he said sounded vaguely familiar with what Jung said about God in the Book of Job. I was wanting Josephw to just sit with that concept for a while and try to imagine and be creative in responding to it.
Why would he, Kirk ?
Where the hell you been? You clearly slept through the sermon competitions and didn't have one damn thing to say about what a positive experience it was for everyone. I was even hoping to hear a theological discourse from you. Submission is good for the soul.
25 Jul 07
Originally posted by knightmeisterSo God corrected the Hebrew Scriptures? That is, they misrepresented
You know what , since the Jewish perception of God was skewed and faulty , I think God should definitely done something about it. It's only fair! He should have come down in person and corrected things and given us an ammended version. They could have called it the New Testament or something. We could have used it to counterbalance the OT God and put the Jewish perception of God into context.
Him and the Christian Scriptures address this?
Is this your take? Are you a Marcionite?
Nemesio
25 Jul 07
Originally posted by KellyJayDespite the fact that your post makes no sense, what I was able to get from it is not true either.
Well this you I'm afraid, your more into insults than anything else.
Kelly
I'm up for a good debate, but when someone tries to defend an indefensible position what is one supposed to say?
Okay, maybe you do have morals. How does this suit you?
If you can defend the mass slaughter of innocent children, you are a complete monster.
Happy now?
25 Jul 07
Originally posted by scottishinnzI do not like the fact children were killed, I'm pointing out to you that
Despite the fact that your post makes no sense, what I was able to get from it is not true either.
I'm up for a good debate, but when someone tries to defend an indefensible position what is one supposed to say?
Okay, maybe you do have morals. How does this suit you?
If you can defend the mass slaughter of innocent children, you are a complete monster.
Happy now?
everyone dies and God setup the universe as is, this is nothing new.
You can now go on and attack me more for that, it is what you do best.
Kelly
25 Jul 07
Originally posted by KellyJayPersecution complex now Kelly? That's a new one for you.
I do not like the fact children were killed, I'm pointing out to you that
everyone dies and God setup the universe as is, this is nothing new.
You can now go on and attack me more for that, it is what you do best.
Kelly
Still you accept what God did, and have even defended the killing of innocent children. I could not bring myself to worship such a foul being - I'm surprised you can.
26 Jul 07
Originally posted by scottishinnzI accept that God setup the universe and everyone has an appointed
Persecution complex now Kelly? That's a new one for you.
Still you accept what God did, and have even defended the killing of innocent children. I could not bring myself to worship such a foul being - I'm surprised you can.
time to die, be they 8 days or 90 years old it is still going to happen!
You want to judge God, that is completely up to you, He gives us our
lives, He takes it away, you don't thank God for all He has given you
so when it comes to your judgment of God your judgment is sort of
one sided.
Kelly
26 Jul 07
1 edit
Originally posted by KellyJayWow, you are right Kelly. If Scottish is going to believe in God enough to blame him for human suffering then he needs to believe in Him enough to praise him for his own existence, for sending Jesus, and so on. This is a reasonably good point. All then that is left for Scottish to do is decide whether with all the dying and suffering God's creation is a net "good", and he will either be a Christian or not based on that decision.
I accept that God setup the universe and everyone has an appointed
time to die, be they 8 days or 90 years old it is still going to happen!
You want to judge God, that is completely up to you, He gives us our
lives, He takes it away, you don't thank God for all He has given you
so when it comes to your judgment of God your judgment is sort of
one sided.
Kelly
My problem is with all of human suffering (and I expect Scottish's is as well). There are things in this world far worse than simply death. They happen all the time, and the god described in the Bible has the power to stop them, but does not. Consider this...
Assume I had the power to create for myself a little white rat, which I put in a maze that has at the end an exit into safety. However, scattered all over the maze are various pitfalls, dead ends, viruses, cancer and flesh eating bacteria. Now, I created this rat, it is mine in every sense of the word.
Do I have the right to treat the rat the way I do in this maze...I suppose you would have to say that I do...I created it. However, it would be silly to suggest that my treatment of the rat is not only good, but worthy of worship.
26 Jul 07
Originally posted by scottishinnzI actually agree with Kelly on this one. If God exists and our stay here on earth is just temporary before an eternity in heaven (or hell) then for those that die young and go to heaven (if the children were as innocent as you claim) it is actually a good thing.
Still you accept what God did, and have even defended the killing of innocent children. I could not bring myself to worship such a foul being - I'm surprised you can.
Of course I have never understood why God would send us to suffer on earth in the first place and why death has to be so painful etc etc. In fact any explanation a theist may come up with for us being here instead of being born straight into heaven immediately begs the question "then why does God let children die before they have gone through whatever it is that we are here for?"
26 Jul 07
Originally posted by twhiteheadYep, you said it much better than I could. Rec'd
I actually agree with Kelly on this one. If God exists and our stay here on earth is just temporary before an eternity in heaven (or hell) then for those that die young and go to heaven (if the children were as innocent as you claim) it is actually a good thing.
Of course I have never understood why God would send us to suffer on earth in the first pl ...[text shortened]... does God let children die before they have gone through whatever it is that we are here for?"
26 Jul 07
stop holding the bible as the universal truth. genesis is a fairy tale, the old testament aside from moral recommendations has actually evil stuff in it.
Yes, God inspired some to write part of the stuff. But he also gave us the free will thingie. So if Joshua wanted to slaughter all in jericho because he was pissed that the city would not fall, God wouldn't have stopped him and wouldn't have stopped the dude that wrote that God asked joshua to do so. So hasn't anyone thought that it would be more reasonable to blame humans on the killings in the old testament instead of blaming God?
read this, it seems much more reasonable than God killing people for no reason.
http://www.alltruebible.com/joshua_02-01.shtml