the bible is immoral

Originally posted by FMF
It's true that you cannot discuss anything with me but not because I have not revealed what I stand for. The reason you are not capable of discussing things with me - or seemingly just about anyone else here - is because your explicit and often repeated credo is [more or less verbatim] as follows:

[b] "Forget belief systems. What I present is not my personal ...[text shortened]... h cannot be debated."

The barrier to debate and discussion is you, vishvahetu, not me.[/b]

There is no barrier to discussion....I am here.

Where are you.

Where discussing truth of God and religion.

Knowledge of God and religion comes only from one source.

The knowledge that I present comes from that source.

Its not my knowledge.

Its the perfect and true bonafide teachings of the Vedas.

The Vedas are the only true source of spiritual knowledge for mankind.

How do I know this.

Because I have studied Christianity and Islam and Buddhism.

And I have studied the Vedic literature, and it is the only true authentic spiritual teaching....not the others.

How do I know this?

Because the others have so much error and the Vedas do not have error. (and thats a whole other topic)

Do you think I just invent.

Any sane man will admit that animal slaughter is (anti religious)....its wrong to kill.....no need for debate, its sinful.

And because its wrong and sinful, religions that support it are bogus.

Do you see that?.....or are you also dishonest.

Originally posted by vishvahetu
There is no barrier to discussion.... [...] Do you see that?.....or are you also dishonest.

Allow me to paraphrase a little:

There is no barrier to discussion.... [...] The knowledge that I present [is true]. [...] Its the perfect and true [knowledge]. [...] [What I believe to be true] is the only true authentic spiritual teaching....not the others. [...] Because [people who disagree with me are wrong] [...] Any sane man will [agree with me] [...] no need for debate [...] [Belief systems different from mine] are bogus. Do you see that?.....or are you also dishonest.

You are misusing the word "dishonest", vishvahetu. It is not synonymous with "in disagreement". You are also confusing "truth" and "belief". Furthermore, you seem to be misunderstanding or misusing the word "discussion".

You have preempted any genuine discussion, in the conventional sense of the word, by clearly suggesting that if I were to state anything that you disagreed with, you would describe me as a liar - and by extension, accuse me of not engaging in honest discussion. So the only discussion you apparently will accept, is 'non-discussion'.

And you seek to establish this as the premise for discussion before the discussion begins. You have made acceptance that 'there will be no discussion' a prerequisite of discussing your belief system.

You have essentially put it like this, as I have already mentioned, and which you are rather glaringly refusing to back off from: "Forget belief systems. What I present is not my personal belief system but the truth. Persons who reject this truth are dishonest. The truth cannot be debated."

This is not only a profoundly anti-intellectual and anti-spiritual stance to take, it is also a fatal barrier to discussion. So there is indeed a barrier to discussion, clearly so. And that barrier is you.

Originally posted by vishvahetu
There is no barrier to discussion....I am here.

Where are you.

Where discussing truth of God and religion.

Knowledge of God and religion comes only from one source.

The knowledge that I present comes from that source.

Its not my knowledge.

Its the perfect and true bonafide teachings of the Vedas.

The Vedas are the only true source of ...[text shortened]... sinful, religions that support it are bogus.

Do you see that?.....or are you also dishonest.

These things you say cannot be substantiated or authoritated by your word only.

It's not true just because you say so.


"Knowledge of God and religion comes only from one source."

That's right! That source is God Himself. How could it be any other way? The problem with the source you quote from is that it doesn't qualify itself.

You also seem to lack a basic understanding of world history. And what's even more disconcerting is your thinly veiled sense of self importance. It appears as if you think that you are somebody just because you think you know the truth. No mere mortal is any better than any other regardless of whether they know the truth or not.

The main issue and problem with what you believe and practice is the idea that you can attain eternal life based on your own efforts. That is what religion is. Religion is "doing" something for God. God doesn't need anything "done" for Him as if He were incomplete in some way. We need something done for us by God. We need forgiveness. Only God can forgive us our sins. We can't earn that forgiveness by "doing" anything. But that's what religion tries to get us to do. We are 100% reliant on God for absolutely everything including eternal life.

The idea that we can "do" something for God to make ourselves accepted by God is evil. It is the foremost error of all religions.

Cain tried it and failed. Abel's sacrifice was accepted because it was the response of faith that God required.

Today we live in the dispensation of the grace of God. God requires the response of faith in the "work" of His Son, on the cross, in order for us to receive forgiveness and the gift of eternal life.

But sin makes us think we can earn eternal life by our own efforts to please God.

The sooner you learn to make that distinction the sooner you'll be on the right path.

Originally posted by vishvahetu
There is no barrier to discussion....I am here.

Its not my knowledge.

That's self-evident my dear.

All of the knowledge you have is contained in a {quote "snowflake! " unquote}

As for no barrier? You, my dear, have a barrier that is profundly unjust with A hatred of others who do not agree with you. Therefore, you are not just dishonest. You are abhorrid.

I pity you. I really do. It is sickening to see such a waste of what, potentially, could be a positive mind.

If you are such a good seeker and expert of your beliefs then why don't you go into the peoples and preach? Go do it. If you are not dishonest, you would leave RHP, the internet, and all of the man made artifacts of science which you so much abhhor.

The reality is, you are the same as all of us, or you are about to massacre lots with an unsound plan, and reason why.

So go do one, while your going is good, or I will bring in some psychology to you which will bring you to a stand still in life.

I.e. foff or accept the consequences of your lies, you little bearded man.

In scientific terms that means go and trascendent somewhere else, loser.

-m. 😠

Originally posted by FMF
Allow me to paraphrase a little:

[b]There is no barrier to discussion.... [...] The knowledge that I present [is true]. [...] Its the perfect and true [knowledge]. [...] [What I believe to be true] is the only true authentic spiritual teaching....not the others. [...] Because [people who disagree with me are wrong] [...] Any sane man will [agree with me] [.. ...[text shortened]... So there is indeed a barrier to discussion, clearly so. And that barrier is you.

You say that disagrement is not the same as dishonesty.....but

When a person disagrees with plain truth....thats dishonest.

How can someone disagree with truth.....its truth.

Would you disagree that the sun is hot....no.

Persons are disagreeing with truth on whim.....not because they have highher knowledge, they dont have higher knowledge, so to disagree with truth on whim is dishonest.

If they want to disagree, then they must study the Vedic teachings very sincerely and put in to practice its teachings, so they can purify the mind, senses and heart....which will open up the insight of spiritual understanding.

And when that is completed, then and only then will they be qualified to disagee or not disagree.

But to simply disagree on whim is dishonest.

Originally posted by mikelom
That's self-evident my dear.

All of the knowledge you have is contained in a {quote "snowflake! " unquote}

As for no barrier? You, my dear, have a barrier that is profundly unjust with A hatred of others who do not agree with you. Therefore, you are not just dishonest. You are abhorrid.

I pity you. I really do. It is sickening to see such a waste of d man.

In scientific terms that means go and trascendent somewhere else, loser.

-m. 😠

I have no hatred of anyone....this is your delusion.

I will not tolerate false teachings, and for want of a better word, I hate false teachings on any level....have you seen the world lately..

Your comments are typical of a person with the madness disease.

You dont know what to do....or what not to do.

And in this condition you spout all manner of nonsense talk.

Originally posted by vishvahetu
I have no hatred of anyone....this is your delusion.

I will not tolerate false teachings, and for want of a better word, I hate false teachings on any level....have you seen the world lately..

Your comments are typical of a person with the madness disease.

You dont know what to do....or what not to do.

And in this condition you spout all manner of nonsense talk.

That's dishonest.

Originally posted by josephw
These things you say cannot be substantiated or authoritated by your word only.

It's not true just because you say so.


[b]"Knowledge of God and religion comes only from one source."

That's right! That source is God Himself. How could it be any other way? The problem with the source you quote from is that it doesn't qualify itself.

You also ...[text shortened]... you learn to make that distinction the sooner you'll be on the right path.[/b]

A person is not qualified to return home back to Godhead, if they are contaminated in any way.

That contamination runs deep into the consciousness and heart.

To remove this worldy material contamination, a person must follow the process of purification (devotional spiritual living)....and they must re-frain from sinfull thoughts, sinfull deeds, and sinfull words.

All ther grace in the universe will not re-move the contamination, and to think so is fancifull. (false)

It is true....we need the grace of God to do anything at all, but if one does not follow true religion, they will not attract the grace of God.

The grace of God is always present at all times, but following substitute religion will repell this grace, because substitute religion doesnt purify the the person, but actually keeps them impure, by not raising their consciousness to the transcedental platfrom.

If the father gives his son a doctors degree because he loves him....does that mean the son is a doctor....NO

The son must study at medical school and become qualified, to be a doctor.

Likewise persons who want to return back to Godhead must be pure.....and no one, or no thing can magically make someone pure.

If God could make persons pure...he would wave his hand and make the whole world pure....but this does not happen (it can,t happen)

What is pure?

Pure means to have no material desire or worldly desire......and only have loving sentiments for God.

The only way to have no material desire, is to live the spiritual life of self control and devotion....and study of the spiritual knowledge, because this will give one realization of their spiritual identity.

Grace alone will do nothing unless the person loves God with heart and soul and has realized their spiritual identity.

Whats the point in God giving grace to a person, if that person is in illusion and believes his rotting material body is self.

No person will get grace, if they are animal killers.....so first stop animal cruelty or you will never get grace.

Originally posted by vishvahetu
You say that disagrement is not the same as dishonesty.....but

When a person disagrees with plain truth....thats dishonest.

How can someone disagree with truth.....its truth.

Would you disagree that the sun is hot....no.

Persons are disagreeing with truth on whim.....not because they have highher knowledge, they dont have higher knowledge, so ...[text shortened]... ll they be qualified to disagee or not disagree.

But to simply disagree on whim is dishonest.

vishvahetu, you are misusing the words "dishonest" and "in disagreement". They are not synonymous. You are also confusing "higher knowledge" and "[your] belief". Furthermore, you seem to be misunderstanding or misusing the word "whim".

Originally posted by FMF
vishvahetu, you are misusing the words "dishonest" and "in disagreement". They are not synonymous. You are also confusing "higher knowledge" and "[your] belief". Furthermore, you seem to be misunderstanding or misusing the word "whim".

Could you present something....anything, because I dont know where you stand on anything.

All I know is that you are playing games with words.

Are you a serial debater ....is that your thing.

Debate everything, but present nothing.

Originally posted by vishvahetu
All I know is that you are playing games with words.

Are you a serial debater ....is that your thing.

Debate everything, but present nothing.

It is you who is playing with words. You have corrupted the meanings of "dishonest", "disagree", "belief", "false" and other words. It is therefore impossible to debate or have a discussion about belief systems with you.

You have set up conditions to preempt debate: you tell us - people on a Spirituality Forum - to forget belief systems; you assert that what you present is not a belief system but "the truth"; you claim that persons who disagree with you are or will be "dishonest"; you assert - over and over again - that what you believe "cannot be debated."

Your prerequisites for debate and your suffocating vanity are fatal barriers to discussion.

Originally posted by FMF
It is you who is playing with words. You have corrupted the meanings of "dishonest", "disagree", "belief", "false" and other words. It is therefore impossible to debate or have a discussion about belief systems with you.

You have set up conditions to preempt debate: you tell us - people on a Spirituality Forum - to forget belief systems; you assert that what ...[text shortened]... equisites for debate and your suffocating vanity are fatal barriers to discussion.

Because you have the fault finding eye, you have misunderstood.

When I said forget belief systems, I meant.....

that just for now forget belief systems because cruelty to animals has nothing to do with belief systems, and everything to do with truth and common sense......do you see that.

The sun is hot....is that a belief or a fact?

Cruelty to animals is wrong....its a fact.

Truth of God is a fact, but if persons speculate and bring into it false beliefs, then that is dishonest.

A persons beliefs based on speculation is a dishonest way to present anything.....do you see that.

You are upset because I dont respect false beliefs based purely on speculation.

That system of assuming truth will have persons saying absurd things like the cosmos has no intelligent directive at its foundation, or that people only have one life to choose eternal damnation or Jesus.....do you see that.

Your championing freedom to speculate and teach it as truth.......that would be nonsense. ( no-sense )

Originally posted by vishvahetu
Because you have the fault finding eye, you have misunderstood.

When I said forget belief systems, I meant.....

that just for now forget belief systems because cruelty to animals has nothing to do with belief systems, and everything to do with truth and common sense......do you see that.

The sun is hot....is that a belief or a fact?

Cruelty to ...[text shortened]... ampioning freedom to speculate and teach it as truth.......that would be nonsense. ( no-sense )

You are misusing the words "dishonest", "disagree", "belief", "fact", "false", "speculation", "assume", "absurd", "see", "common sense" and "nonsense". Until you agree to use the necessary language in conventional ways, all we are getting from you is vanity.

Originally posted by FMF
You are misusing the words "dishonest", "disagree", "belief", "fact", "false", "speculation", "assume", "absurd", "see", "common sense" and "nonsense". Until you agree to use the necessary language in conventional ways, all we are getting from you is vanity.

You are not interested in spirituality or truth......but you are a serial arguementavist.....who enjoys playing games with words.

Still dont know what you stand for....

You may play your word games with someone else.

And to do this you are also dishonest.

Originally posted by vishvahetu
You are not interested in spirituality or truth......but you are a serial arguementavist.....who enjoys playing games with words.

Still dont know what you stand for....

You may play your word games with someone else.

And to do this you are also dishonest.

More vanity. And yet you won't discuss its role in your belief system.

You are the one playing with words. I am the one confronting you with your misuse of language.

You need to address the barrier that you created with these words...

"Forget belief systems. What I present is not my personal belief system but the truth. Persons who reject this truth are dishonest. The truth cannot be debated"

...before debate with you can commence.

Only your ego is preventing it, it seems.