15 May 18
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It’s not a book I take a lot of note of these days. I’ve read it several times over the years and am still none the wiser for doing so. Most of it, if not all of it, is strange visions expressed as symbolism and I don’t subscribe to the tranditional interpretations as you know.
The most interesting thing about the book for me at the moment is what FMF has revealed about it,
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15 May 18
Originally posted by @divegeesterI read something that FMF wrote which made me realize that some people may mix up latter religious literature with the Bible.
It’s not a book I take a lot of note of these days. I’ve read it several times over the years and am still none the wiser for doing so. Most of it, if not all of it, is strange visions expressed as symbolism and I don’t subscribe to the tranditional interpretations as you know.
The most interesting thing about the book for me at the moment is what FMF has revealed about it,
So you say "the book of Revelation" and they may THINK - "Dante's Inferno".
There are some tough places in Revelation. But it is not the Divine Comedy or some other religious prose in latter centuries.
This is a problem. And even skirting such imagery as I have unwisely may have done in the past, is stumbling to some.
Anyway. I want to write out verse two.
"Who testified the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ, even all that he saw."
no paste .... I am writing it out again .
Who testified the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ, even all that he saw. (v.2)
15 May 18
Originally posted by @sonshipStop trying to put words in my mouth, sonship. I am not "mixed up" about anything. And I haven't talked about Dante's Inferno. Stop making stuff up. Who wrote Revelation? What were the circumstances of its content coming into being? How can it be corroborated? How many hands did it pass through? Why is it in the Bible?
I read something that FMF wrote which made me realize that some people may mix up latter religious literature with the Bible.
So you say "the book of Revelation" and they may THINK - "Dante's Inferno".
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15 May 18
Originally posted by @fmfYou were a Christian for decades and you're seriously telling me you don't know the answers to those questions?
Stop trying to put words in my mouth, sonship. I am not "mixed up" about anything. And I haven't talked about Dante's Inferno. Stop making stuff up. Who wrote Revelation? What were the circumstances of its content coming into being? How can it be corroborated? How many hands did it pass through? Why is it in the Bible?
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15 May 18
2 edits
Originally posted by @fmfSorry.
Stop trying to put words in my mouth, sonship. I am not "mixed up" about anything. And I haven't talked about Dante's Inferno. Stop making stuff up. Who wrote Revelation? What were the circumstances of its content coming into being? How can it be corroborated? How many hands did it pass through? Why is it in the Bible?
John wrote Revelation. And I think he wrote it before he even wrote the Gospel of John.
Could scholars argue about the authorship of that book?
Yep, probably forever.
15 May 18
Originally posted by @sonshipWhat makes you claim it was "John"? What makes you claim it was "Jesus" in the supposed vision?
Sorry.
John wrote [b]Revelation. And I think he wrote it before he even wrote the Gospel of John.
Could scholars argue about the authorship of that book?
Yep, probably forever.[/b]
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15 May 18
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Originally posted by @fmfThe similarities between the Gospel of John and Revelation encouragement to believe what is said - that it was written by John.
What makes you claim it was "John"? What makes you claim it was "Jesus" in the supposed vision?
Could intellectuals argue about proof of authorship?? Yep, probably perpetually. Is that what you want to do , keep the argument going about authorship debated perpetually, leaving NO final assurance one way or the other? Keep it controversial, questionable, up in the air, ambiguous, undecided, a perpetual debate?
This is a life changing book to me even if I am less than 100% sure who wrote it. The point is that God is speaking in it. That's my faith.
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15 May 18
Originally posted by @dj2beckerMaybe once he loved the Son of God and believed the Bible.
You were a Christian for decades and you're seriously telling me you don't know the answers to those questions?
Then one day he realized that the authorship of some books was so controversial that he could not be 1000% positive the anyone wrote any particular book.
This may have caused his heart to become cold and colder towards the Lord Jesus Whom he previously believed in and loved.
Me? I'm going to keep on loving this Wonderful and believable Person, the Son of God.
Originally posted by @sonshipWhat debate? You're the one pontifcating based on it as if it were credible and basing your torturer god ideology on it. What makes you claim it was "Jesus" in the supposed vision? And why should anyone believe your assertions about it?
Is that what you want to do , keep the argument going about authorship debated perpetually, leaving NO final assurance one way or the other? Keep it controversial, questionable, up in the air, ambiguous, undecided, a perpetual debate?
15 May 18
Originally posted by @sonshipWhat's 1000% got to do with anything? I eventually came to realize that I had 0% belief in it. 1000% of what? What are you on about?
Then one day he realized that the authorship of some books was so controversial that he could not be 1000% positive the anyone wrote any particular book.
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15 May 18
Originally posted by @fmfDoesn't matter too much. You're happy now. So I don't think more time needs to be spent on how you became an unbeliever.
What's 1000% got to do with anything? I eventually came to realize that I had 0% belief in it. 1000% of what? What are you on about?
Paul had co-workers who turned aside from the faith.
I expect it could happen in modern times as well.
Don't worry what I was on about.
Details of your splendid present position as an unbeliever are your own affair, kept as your own peculiar treasured secret.
Don't bother insisting again and again - "Don't you understand? I could no longer believe !"
I got it.
I got it.
What are you? Waiting for all Christians to join you ?
15 May 18
Originally posted by @sonshipBut the "knowledge" that I will be tortured for eternity makes it easier for you to forgive me for saying non-Christian things on this forum, right? It makes your Christian life easier, isn't that so? Propagating this misanthropy is your gig here, isn't it.
Doesn't matter too much. You're happy now. So I don't think more time needs to be spent on how you became an unbeliever.
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15 May 18
The vision of Jesus at first:
"I was in spirit on the Lord's Day and heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet.
Saying, What you see write in a scroll and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamos and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea.
And I turned to see the voice that spoke to me, and when I turned, I saw seven golden lampstands. "
First John saw seven golden lampstands as seven churches for seven cities. This is no small thing.
Then John saw Jesus.
"And in the midst of the lampstands One like the Son of Man, clothed with a garment reaching to the feet, and girded about at the breasts with a golden girdle.
Praise God! He is a High Priest in the midst of the local churches on the earth. His heart is of divine nature - gold. He is tending to the churches as caring for the shining flames of lampstands in the tabernacle of old.
This is His present day ministry.
Originally posted by @sonshipBy the same reckoning, why don't you keep your present position as a profoundly superstitious man as your own affair and as your own peculiar treasured secret? Why should people on this forum with different beliefs from you keep them secret?
Details of your splendid present position as an unbeliever are your own affair, kept as your own peculiar treasured secret.
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15 May 18
And His head and hair were as white as white wool, as snow; ...
White indicates ancientness.
Christ is as ancient as God is - eternal.
White here is ancient but not OLD.
Christ is ancient by means of His divine life.
White wool is white because of the life of the sheep not because of being old.
White as snow means His ancientness is heavenly.
It is also not decrepit or aging but fresh, living, renewing.
His white hair is white like snow - so refreshing.
Christ is of eternal life. What a High Priest and what divine ministry.
He is like "the Son of Man". Hails back to Daniel - the divinely sent "Son of Man".
" and His eyes were like a flame of fire."
Nothing can escape His notice in your heart. NOTHING.
His gaze also transfuses us with holiness.
His gaze into our being imparts His own burning holy fire into our beings.
We need to turn our hearts toward the Lord Jesus to gaze upon His glorious face and let Him gaze into us. He will dispense Himself into us by His gazing at us.
This will burn up all the sinful, worldly, low, dirty, unclean and even good by godless things in us. What a Son of Man. What a Man - a God - man.