Taking Quality Questions on Revelation

Originally posted by @sonship
I bet you that's a remark that I'm suppose to take real personally.

Originally posted by @divegeester
Actually no, it’s mostly tongue-in-cheek.

The post l was referring to is more odd than creepy.

And He had in His right hand seven stars; and out of His mouth proceeded a sharp two-edged sword; and His face shone as the sun shines in its power.

And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead; ..."

"And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead, and He placed His right hand on me, saying,

Do not fear; I am the First and the Last and the living One, and I became dead, and behold, I am living forever and ever; and I have the keys to death and of Hades."

What follows the vision of Christ is unique as chapters 2 and 3. In each of the seven letters to the churches what Christ is as described in the vision is APPLIED to the specific situation of each church.


Just about all of the features of what Christ is in 1:13-18 are mentioned in relation to the situation of each local church.

This is amazing. No one can say that this complex and well written vision is a "mad-man's dream" IMO.

Originally posted by @sonship
What follows the vision of Christ is unique as [b]chapters 2 and 3. In each of the seven letters to the churches what Christ is as described in the vision is APPLIED to the specific situation of each church.


Just about all of the features of what Christ is in 1:13-18 are mentioned in relation to the situation of each local church.

This ...[text shortened]... is amazing. No one can say that this complex and well written vision is a "mad-man's dream" IMO.[/b]

The letters to the seven churches may well show every condition of the church throughout the ages. Her varied situations, conditions, triumphs, failures, all may be indicated in these seven local churches.

I have been persuaded that the seven letters also are a prophecy of the journey of the Christian church from Christ's ascension to the second coming.

I never could have seen this myself. It was noticed, I think by some Brethren teachers of the 19th century who were known for their scholarship in Church history. I first learned this method of interpretation from Watchman Nee's book The Orthodoxy of the Church an exposition of Revelation 2 and 3.

Then I learned even more from the Life Study of Revelation by Witness Lee. The footnotes of the Recovery Version contain many of those illuminating notes.

These Christians gave God's people the main keys. Upon using the keys of enlightenment much more can be opened up, AS they intended. I believe, as the Holy Spirit intended.

Ie. " Here are some keys. God will take you even further. "

This verse shows how God sees Christians on earth. The seven golden lampstands speak of three matters -

1.) The nature of the Father.
2.) The embodiment of the Father in the Son
3.) The shining expression of the Holy Spirit

The lampstands are of gold - the divine nature of the Father
The gold is fashioned into a form - the embodiment of God in the Son.
The function of the lampstands is to shine - the expression of the Holy Spirit.

The lampstands show communities of the Triune God.
And these lampstands are for the final consumate golden mountain city as the universal city of chapters 21,22 the New Jerusalem.

She is really a lampstand as a city - mountain of gold shining and testifying God in union with humanity - mingled as one entity to mass produce Jesus Christ as constituents of the new universe in eternity future.

The lampstand in Zechariah concerning the rebuilding of the fallen temple of God is needed to understand how the lampstands as seven local churches are significant.

We could spend all week on just the lampstand in the Bible.
Oh, its construction is too profound. I am inadequate as a good teacher of such profound things. And I am too excited. And the audience is only partially interested fro many hostile critics only await to derail any attempt to glorify God and Christ in discussing the Bible.

Just read aloud the passage:

"I was in spirit on the Lord's Day and heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, saying,

What you see write in a book and send it to the seven churches:
to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamos and to Thytira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea.

And I turned to see the voice that spoke to me, and when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, And in the midst of the lampstands One like the Son of Man ..." (Rev. 1:10-13a)

The normal way for Christians to "church" together is God's way.
That is one city matched with one church.
Geography being the only basis of division.

Seven churches here equals seven cities.
There is not one church covering two or more cities.
And there is not one city consisting of more than one church.

One city matched with its local - (truly local) church.
Christianity has deviated away from this for centuries.
Denominations damage and nullify this divine scheme, a scheme that man cannot improve upon.

One city should be matched with one church of all the believers in that city. Not necessarily one meeting house is intended. But one local church of possibly many smaller groups or gatherings is God's ordained way from the beginning of the church age.

" ... What you see write in a book and send it to the seven churches:
To Ephesus
and to Smyrna
and to Pergamos
and to Thyatira
and to Sardis
and to Philadelphia
and to Laodicea. "

When you think of these churches as golden lampstands it is reminiscent of how Balaam the prophet was propesied about Israel. Regardless of how Balak the Gentile enemy of Israel, paid for the prophet to curse Israel, blessing came out.

Balak gave money to the prophet Balaam to pronounce curses on Israel. Whenever Balaam tried God caused blessing to come out instead. (See the Old Testament book of Numbers 22-24 ).

Balak took him to one angle after another, trying to get Balaam to see the Israelites this way, and that way, and from this angle, and from that angle. No matter how Balak tried to get Balaam to see their faults God overruled and caused the prophecy to be a blessing on how lovely Israel looked to God.

God saw His people through the eyes of His redemption.
God knows the problems of His people. He is not naive. He knows better than anyone. But He sees His people through the eyes of their position under His redemption.

He will not allow the fault finder of the hostile world to define His people. It is the same with the seven churches in Revelation 2 and 3. All of them are to Christ golden lampstands of the testimony of Jesus.

Some of those churches have very serious problems before God. But God sees them all the same - under His redemption and in the process of being cared for by the Great High Priest.

They are seven golden shining lampstands - all.

John saw the seven local churches as seven golden lampstands. They all had one nature and one expression.

You may say that this is not fair. Such problems are seen in some of those churches. How could they be to God seven golden lampstands? God sees them through the eyes of His redemption.

But the church in Ephesus had left her first love (2:4). And the church in Pergamos was so worldly as to dwell where Satan's throne is (2;13). Only one Christian there was call "against all" - Antipas. He was Christ's faithful witness. That means he was against everything that was going on - none of it was right!
And the church was too tolerant of evil things and needed to repent (2:16)

Still the church in Ephesus and the church in Pergamos are to Jesus golden lampstands.

And what about the church in Thyatira? Her Christians have fallen to the lowest state. This church is involved with "the deep things of Satan" (2:24) . In other words Satanic and demonic things were going in this church. Unbelievable that she too is seen by Christ as the others - a golden lampstand.

The church is not a utopia. And the church has faults before Christ. But Christ sees them through the eyes of their position under His eternal redemption.

Even the lowest condition - Thyatira, is seen as a golden lampstand.

Christians must see His church through the eyes of Christ.

So much for “questions”

I’ve got a platform and I’m gonna use it!

It’s all someone else’s original ideas of course.

http://www.ministrysamples.org/excerpts/THE-GOLDEN-LAMPSTAND-SYMBOLIZING-THE-TRIUNE-GOD.HTML

Cite your sources sonship, your plagiarism is poor form.

Originally posted by @divegeester
So much for “questions”

I’ve got a platform and I’m gonna use it!

Originally posted by @sonship
While I await "quality" questions, why not move things along?

Too bad you waste your opportunity with another tired jab.
You could have asked something or positively contributed something about Revelation.

Do you dislike everything in the book?