Spiritual Yard Sale

Originally posted by KellyJay
You either knew Him or you didn't, do not say you knew Him like I do, you have
no idea what I know or have gone through.

And you have no idea what I know or have gone through, Kelly. The problem with your "Depart from me I never knew you" soundbite is that it means - according to your own logic - no one knows if you are a "real" Christian either. At some point in the future you may be declared - effective retrospectively - a Never-was-a-Christian. If that's the way you think it works with me, then that is the way it must work with you too, right?

Originally posted by FMF
And you have no idea what I know or have gone through, Kelly. The problem with your "Depart from me I never knew you" soundbite is that it means - according to your own logic - no one knows if you are a "real" Christian either. At some point in the future you may be declared - effective retrospectively - a Never-was-a-Christian. If that's the way you think it works with me, then that is the way it must work with you too, right?

I know this much, you either knew Him or you did not, and since you now say
you cast all of that away, I believe you did not.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I know this much, you either knew Him or you did not, and since you now say you cast all of that away, I believe you did not.

Well - pardon me as I appropriate your logical device for a moment - we won't know if you are, have been or ever were a "real" Christian until we are sure you won't have walked away from it. And we won't know that until you die, and even then we'll just have to take you at your word. Who knows, maybe in the future you will stop believing, and - according to your logic - it will mean that you were never [and therefore aren't] a "real" Christian now, and that you never did [and therefore don't] "know" Jesus now. Just handing your own petard to you, that's all.

Originally posted by FMF
I used to be a Christian, and when I was, I certainly wasn't concerned about whether I complied with the JW definition of what it meant to be Christian. But I don't believe any of it anymore. So what you choose to declare about what I was ten, twenty or thirty years ago is moot. Your pronouncements about my past have no more significance or traction than KellyJay's.

try reading the scriptures, you were never a Christian in any sense other than nominal,
any one who reads the scriptures and fails to see the importance of teaching and
preaching the gospel simply has failed to understand what it was saying and as a
consequence has not known and has not walked with Christ.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
try reading the scriptures, you were never a Christian in any sense other than nominal,
any one who reads the scriptures and fails to see the importance of teaching and
preaching the gospel simply has failed to understand what it was saying and as a
consequence has not known and has not walked with Christ.

I never claimed to be a Jehovah's Witness, robbie. So your definition of Christian means even less to me now than it would have meant to me back when I was a Christian. For what it's worth, I don't agree with your interpretation of what the scriptures say about the importance of teaching and preaching the gospel. Don't agree with it now [not that it really matters - whatever floats your boats]; didn't agree with it then; don't imagine I ever will agree with it. I wasn't a Jehovah's Witness, so I never subscribed to Jehovah's Witness definitions and interpretations.

Originally posted by FMF
I never claimed to be a Jehovah's Witness, robbie. So your definition of Christian means even less to me now than it would have meant to me back when I was a Christian. For what it's worth, I don't agree with your interpretation of what the scriptures say about the importance of teaching and preaching the gospel. Don't agree with it now [not that it really matte ...[text shortened]... 's Witness, so I never subscribed to Jehovah's Witness definitions and interpretations.

I never said you did mr strawberry straw pie, did I and the scriptures are quite clear,
you where never anywhere near being a Christian, in anything but a nominal sense.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I never said you did mr strawberry straw pie, did I and the scriptures are quite clear,
you where never anywhere near being a Christian, in anything but a nominal sense.

I don't [and never did] subscribe to the same views as you on what you call "the majority of professed Christians" or "nominal Christians", because I am not/wasn't a Jehovah's Witness. Nor would I have been worried in the slightest about whether or not you accepted that I was a Christian back when I was one. Now that I have abandoned the faith, whether or not you think I was a "true" Christian twenty years ago is merely a talking point [in a forum like this] as far as I am concerned. Such assertions on your part, about what it means "to have walked with Christ", ought really to be directed at actual, current Christians, not ex-Christians, surely.

Originally posted by FMF
I don't [and never did] subscribe to the same views as you on what you call "the majority of professed Christians" or "nominal Christians", because I am not/wasn't a Jehovah's Witness. Nor would I have been worried in the slightest about whether or not you accepted that I was a Christian back when I was one. Now that I have abandoned the faith, whether or not yo ...[text shortened]... ought really to be directed at actual, current Christians, not ex-Christians, surely.

I have not stated once you were a Jehovahs witness, why you keep harping on about
pure straw arguments i cannot say, but you were never anything but a nominal
Christian as is clear from the scriptural definition of what a Christian is and more
importantly does. N o m i n a l, in name only!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
...the scriptures are quite clear....

About teaching and preaching? Well I think they are clear too, especially in their ecclesiastical context. But what is "clear" to me and what is "clear" to you are quite different. I am happy for you to reckon I'm wrong and you're right about it. It's a bit beyond the remit of this thread. The long and short of the Spiritual Yard Sale thing is that I abandoned Christianity about a decade ago. Both you and KellyJay seem to think I was never a Christian, and to the extent that it would ever have mattered much to me what you or KellyJay thought, even back in the day, it certainly doesn't rankle now.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I have not stated once you were a Jehovahs witness, why you keep harping on about
pure straw arguments i cannot say, but you were never anything but a nominal
Christian as is clear from the scriptural definition of what a Christian is and more
importantly does. N o m i n a l, in name only!

It's not a straw man, it's entirely pertinent. If I had been a Jehovah's Witness back then - or if I were one now - I would perhaps agree with your definitions of "true" or "nominal" Christians or what you say a Christian "is" or "does" and your interpretations. If I were a Jehovah's Witness then I'd most likely agree with you on blood transfusions being immoral. But I don't. And I had no problem with them when I was a Christian, whether you think I was a Christian or not. So, when you boil it down, it's you being a Jehovah's Witness and me not being a Jehovah's Witness that accounts for our different perspectives.

Originally posted by FMF
About teaching and preaching? Well I think they are clear too, especially in their ecclesiastical context. But what is "clear" to me and what is "clear" to you are quite different. I am happy for you to reckon I'm wrong and you're right about it. It's a bit beyond the remit of this thread. The long and short of the Spiritual Yard Sale thing is that I abandoned C ...[text shortened]... me what you or KellyJay thought, even back in the day, it certainly doesn't rankle now.

especially in their ecclesiastical context? what did Jesus have to say about preaching
and teaching in an ecclesiastical context? Were you a fisher of men or a keeper of the
aquarium?

Originally posted by FMF
It's not a straw man, it's entirely pertinent. If I had been a Jehovah's Witness back then - or if I were one now - I would perhaps agree with your definitions of "true" or "nominal" Christians or what you say a Christian "is" or "does" and your interpretations. If I were a Jehovah's Witness then I'd most likely agree with you on blood transfusions being immoral ...[text shortened]... me not being a Jehovah's Witness that accounts for our different perspectives.

Its pure straw, unadulterated, double concentrated, hyper intensive, straw!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
especially in their ecclesiastical context? what did Jesus have to say about preaching
and teaching in an ecclesiastical context? Were you a fisher of men or a keeper of the
aquarium?

If you want to go door to door and preach your organization's interpretations of religious literature to people, good luck to you. It does not impress me, as you know. I don't think your criticism of other Christians for not behaving like Jehovah's Witnesses in this regard has much basis in scripture, although there are some words there for you to - in my view - take out of context and use to justify what is - in my view - your hamster's wheel type "ministry". But, please understand, I probably would not be saying this to if I were a Jehovah's Witness. Almost certainly not, in fact.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Its pure straw, unadulterated, double concentrated, hyper intensive, straw!

A straw man? Not at all. We just do not agree.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Its pure straw, unadulterated, double concentrated, hyper intensive, straw!

i would ask this of you and kelly. are you of the opinion that if a person stops believing, they were never a real chrisitan in the first place?