Sinners in the Hand

Originally posted by Badwater
Understood. I would maintain that it is murder, nonetheless.

The ancient Jews had no problem pitting the might of their God against the gods of their enemies. If murder ensued then it was just and right in the eyes of the Jews but is still murder.

What people do for their own reasons are their issues, they can even
do it in God's name that does not always mean God had anything
to do with it, no more than when people kill in the name of pro-life.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
What people do for their own reasons are their issues, they can even
do it in God's name that does not always mean God had anything
to do with it, no more than when people kill in the name of pro-life.
Kelly

Well, you can't have it both ways.

You can't claim that in Bible is the inerrant Word of God and then, in the next breath, claim the the ancient peoples of the Old Testament are killing in God's name.

Humans had nothing to do with God's decision to murder off everyone except for Noah's family. Humans had nothing to do with an angel, on behalf of God, murdering off 100,000 enemies of the Jews.

This is God murdering humans. I realize it does not fit into your compacted, convenient view of who you see as God, but it is the same nonetheless.

Originally posted by whodey
But if God is all powerful, surely he can find a way to give us free will. Of course, according to you, he is all powerful EXCEPT to give us free will.

I do not think omnipotence includes the ability to perform logical contradictions. For example, not even an omnipotent god could make a square circle.

Originally posted by rwingett
I do not think omnipotence includes the ability to perform logical contradictions. For example, not even an omnipotent god could make a square circle.

God can't sin either, He can't contritict Himself or His Nature.

Originally posted by daniel58
God can't sin either, He can't contritict Himself or His Nature.

Then, logically, he or she cannot commit murder. Yet, there are corpses strewn all the way back to the garden.

Originally posted by Badwater
Well, you can't have it both ways.

You can't claim that in Bible is the inerrant Word of God and then, in the next breath, claim the the ancient peoples of the Old Testament are killing in God's name.

Humans had nothing to do with God's decision to murder off everyone except for Noah's family. Humans had nothing to do with an angel, on behalf of God, ...[text shortened]... into your compacted, convenient view of who you see as God, but it is the same nonetheless.

Excuse me, where did I say that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God?
If you would like to point me to that post we can talk about it, but in
the mean time, when you say Bible, you are referring to what translation,
what language, and so on they are all different you know? If you also
do not mind, can you just stick to those things I say and keep your
preconceived ideas about me to yourself unless I say something that
confirms your suspicions about what I do believe and don’t believe.

If you want to point out specific passages of scripture I suggest you
quote it, and if you don’t mind please present your views about
each passage of scripture and I’ll do the same, and not just assume
we each know what the other thinks before we share.
Kelly

Originally posted by Wulebgr
Then, logically, he or she cannot commit murder. Yet, there are corpses strewn all the way back to the garden.

Do you think every time someone dies it is murder?
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Murder, you think God can do that?
Kelly

The above is the point, not your obfuscation regarding posting Bible passages and such.

God has murdered. God can murder. God has done that. There is Biblical evidence for God having murdered. That's the point.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Do you think every time someone dies it is murder?
Kelly

Murder is only the premeditated killing of a human being. Why are you grasping at strawmen again?

Originally posted by KellyJay
Do you think every time someone dies it is murder?
Kelly

I'm only referring to those killed through premeditated slaying.


Onan, for instance. Is masturbation a capital crime?

Originally posted by Badwater
The above is the point, not your obfuscation regarding posting Bible passages and such.

God has murdered. God can murder. God has done that. There is Biblical evidence for God having murdered. That's the point.

I beg to differ, God cannot, does not, and has never murdered
one. I suppose just saying that is enough, since that is what you
are doing! God setup the universe, He gives and takes away life,
He sets the standards, He isn't bound by our standards.
Kelly

Originally posted by Wulebgr
I'm only referring to those killed through premeditated slaying.


Onan, for instance. Is masturbation a capital crime?

Is killing on the battle field between combatants murder, a policeman
fighting back murder, a man defending his family being attacked with
deadly force murder? Each of those with few exceptions are found
to be a “just” taking of life and not murder by nearly everyone, they
are done with deliberate fashion. Just as someone being executed by
the state because they were found breaking the law in such a fashion
that the state takes their life that too isn’t murder it is a death
sentence being executed.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Is killing on the battle field between combatants murder, a policeman
fighting back murder, a man defending his family being attacked with
deadly force murder? Each of those with few exceptions are found
to be a “just” taking of life and not murder by nearly everyone, they
are done with deliberate fashion. Just as someone being executed by
the state be ...[text shortened]... the state takes their life that too isn’t murder it is a death
sentence being executed.
Kelly

Onan?

Originally posted by KellyJay
I beg to differ, God cannot, does not, and has never murdered
one. I suppose just saying that is enough, since that is what you
are doing! God setup the universe, He gives and takes away life,
He sets the standards, He isn't bound by our standards.
Kelly

The premeditated taking of human life is murder. God has murdered. God may have had God's reasons for it but it is murder nonetheless. It has nothing to do with setting up the universe or giving life. It does have to do with the taking of life and that is where murder starts and ends. It has nothing to do with standards or who or what is, according to you, setting the standards.

Your odd dislogical fantasy God-world does not change that.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I... Each of those with few exceptions are found
to be a “just” taking of life and not murder by nearly everyone, they
are done with deliberate fashion.....

Premeditated.

Premeditated, not deliberate.

Premeditated.

Murder is premeditated. Not accidental. Not defending in the response of a moment. Premeditated.

That's why I clarified murder in my first post on this thread, but you still seem to not get it and go for strawmen.

Premeditated.