23 Feb 05
2 edits
Originally posted by frogstompSo what, people do a lot of things because of X, it does not matter
Yes people do many sickening things...there a difference here, there are people that actually believe that THESE particular sickening things are justified because the bible says God was involved.
what X is or stands for, people do sickening things, and X may or
may not have anything to do with how the people are viewing it.
Kelly
edit:
example:
Recall Manson and thw "White album", anything can be twisted.
23 Feb 05
1 edit
Originally posted by KellyJayThe citations are with the first posts mentioning them, but the Midianite Massacre in Numbers 31 (whole chapter). The Jephteth story is Judges 11: 29-39 and the Elisha story is cited on this page. I used the American Standard Version, but if you're more comfortable with another, I'll look at that version as well.
I'm aware of that story, but to speed up my replies can I have the
books chapter and verses so I can read it, if you have a specific
version you would like me to read it in let me know that too.
Se we are speaking about apples and appl ...[text shortened]... orking for any agency means that
the agency condoned it.
Kelly
23 Feb 05
1 edit
Originally posted by no1marauderPick a story I'll read it in whatever translation you like. I'd like to
The citations are with the first posts mentioning them, but the Midianite Massacre in Numbers 31 (whole chapter). The Jephteth story is Judges 11: 29-39 and the Elisha story is cited on this page. I used the American Standard Ve ...[text shortened]... more comfortable with another, I'll look at that version as well.
take them on one at a time if that is okay?
Kelly
23 Feb 05
Originally posted by KellyJayIf you are saying that the OT isn't exactly
So what, people do a lot of things because of X, it does not matter
what X is or stands for, people do sickening things, and X may or
may not have anything to do with how the people are viewing it.
Kelly
edit:
example:
Recall Manson and thw "White album", anything can be twisted.
You'the word of god, you're preaching to the choir here.
This thread is about directly confronting literal interpretation of a book that defines god and if taken literally it doesn't make Him look too good. does it?
23 Feb 05
Originally posted by KellyJayTake 'em in order; start with the Jepthath story. Please look at the passage in any traditional version (king James, Darby, ASV, whatever; I don't want to get sidetracked into which is best but I don't want to use versions created in the last 25 or so years either) and then read my first post in this thread for my take on it and return with your thoughts.
Pick a story I'll read it in whatever translation you like. I'd like to
take them on one at a time if that is okay?
Kelly
23 Feb 05
Originally posted by frogstompI'm saying you need to keep all stories in context, nothing more.
If you are saying that the OT isn't exactly
You'the word of god, you're preaching to the choir here.
This thread is about directly confronting literal interpretation of a book that defines god and if taken literally it doesn't make Him look too good. does it?
Kelly
23 Feb 05
Originally posted by no1marauderOkay, I'll read them and get back to you. Today more than likely
Take 'em in order; start with the Jepthath story. Please look at the passage in any traditional version (king James, Darby, ASV, whatever; I don't want to get sidetracked into which is best but I don't want to use versions created in the last 25 or so years either) and then read my first post in this thread for my take on it and return with your thoughts.
I'm home sick, so I have some time.
Kelly
23 Feb 05
Originally posted by no1marauderthey were condoned for this - any man who touched a woman was made to stay outside the camp for 7 days and so on...
I'll repeat what I said on page 4 regarding the claims that the Midianite girls weren't raped:
The girls were "kept alive" for the Israelite man. Do you think they went willingly to men who had murdered their parents, sisters and brothers? No, Darfius, they were forced to, under pain of death. That's rape in New York and even in Texas. "The Jews abhorred raping"!!!!!! What a laugh!
Got it?
23 Feb 05
1 edit
Originally posted by KellyJayThat's the point, the context of the OT is plainly people using god as justification for vile deeds.
I'm saying you need to keep all stories in context, nothing more.
Kelly
No amount of rationalization can make justify murdering men, women and children for the crime of living on land you want, none whatsoever, for the bible to say god had a hand in that is enough proof for me to say the god of the bible isn't god.
It's a testiment to devinely inspired robberies, rapes and murders.
That the god couldnt swing defeating the guys in the valley that had iron chariots should be enought to show god wasn't with them, but the bible says he was
So how is the idea that the bible is the word of god sustainable.
23 Feb 05
1 edit
Originally posted by geniusMARRY THEM??????????????? You're joking, right? That's a wonderful courtship OT God worked out for them, wasn't it?
are you saying that they were going to rape them, or marry them?
NY Penal Law 130.35: Any person is guilty of rape in the first degree when they engage in sexual intercouse with another person: 1) By forcible compulsion.
"Forcible Compulsion" is defined at PL 130.8 as: to compel by either a) Use of physical force or b) a threat, express or implied, which places a person in fear of immediate death or physical injury.
Want to construct a legal defense on the basis that those Midianite girls who just saw their entire families butchered weren't under a "threat" of "immediate death" if they did not agree to have sexual intercourse with their new owners? There's some liberal judges in New York, but I wouldn't argue that one in court!
So I am saying they were going to be raped day after day for the rest of their lives, on the orders of your "merciful and loving" God. Clear enough?
23 Feb 05
Originally posted by geniusThese aren't just random evildoers. One was a patriarch, the brother of Abraham. The other was one of the most powerful kings of Israel, and a man the bible says was "after God's own heart". Then again, God never had a problem killing large volumes of people in the bible.
people aren't perfect. they make mistakes. the people in the two stories that you have outlined have all been critisised for what they did. sickening though they may be, they aren't exacly on topic so get back on it! 😲
In case you missed it, the title of this thread is 'sickening bible stories', thus, my posts are very much on topic. If the topic bothers you, I suggest you get out of the thread.
23 Feb 05
Originally posted by BigDoggProblemYou clearly have no idea WHY God might order what He did.
These aren't just random evildoers. One was a patriarch, the brother of Abraham. The other was one of the most powerful kings of Israel, and a man the bible says was "after God's own heart". Then again, God never had a problem killing large volumes of people in the bible.
In case you missed it, the title of this thread is 'sickening bible stor ...[text shortened]... my posts are very much on topic. If the topic bothers you, I suggest you get out of the thread.
You do realize that He has infinite wisdom, yes? Clearly you couldn't begin to fathom His reasoning.
I can think of a host of reasons why it would be necessary.
1. Those people would have done even worse to the Jews if given the opportunity.
2. God's priority in the OT is to PROTECT THE PEOPLE THE MESSIAH WOULD COME FROM. I can't stress that enough. If the Jews had been annihilated, you wouldn't have a Savior to deny and ridicule.
3. It's my belief that fallen angels may have had children with earth women. It's mentioned in Genesis and I believe Goliath is the most famous example of that evil union. As such, I believe both the Flood and seemingly cruel actions in the OT can best be explained by God ridding the world of pure evil. Sounds fantastical, but you haven't seen what I've seen.
Finally, you're applying current, American morals to a time when it was tough just to survive. What should the Jews have done with the evil guys? Put them in prison and feed and clothe them? So they could revolt and kill Jewish women and children?
23 Feb 05
Originally posted by frogstompPeople do use God to do vile deeds all the time, it has not stopped
That's the point, the context of the OT is plainly people using god as justification for vile deeds.
No amount of rationalization can make justify murdering men, women and children for the crime of living on land you want, none whatsoever, for the bible to say god had a hand in that is enough proof for me to say the god of the bible is ...[text shortened]... t the bible says he was
So how is the idea that the bible is the word of god sustainable.
since the beginning that is nothing new. As far as why God did some
times one way and not other things, I cannot answer that. I do not
know why he acts the way he does. I'm sure He has reasons, what
they are I don' t know, and you don't either.
God does not murder, just a policeman acting lawfully does not
murder someone if he ends up using deadly force and someone
dies.
Kelly