04 Sep 14
Originally posted by KellyJayIs that the reference or proof that you said you will provide? Becuase it does not seem like it.
To begin with, I'm not nor have I ever said a good work was not a good
work. Doing good is always better than doing evil, the point I stressed
was that God cannot and will not be pleased with anyone who is in the
flesh. Jesus was making a point on who was a neighbor to the guy on the
road, no one is going to get by on titles or lables, so we can call ou ...[text shortened]... red by the blood. Those that reject or ignore it do
not have the blood over their lives.
Kelly
05 Sep 14
Originally posted by Rajk999Nothing required of you Rajk999, I'm sure I screwed up and don't recall
Is that the reference or proof that you said you will provide? Becuase it does not seem like it.
what I owe you with scripture. I have been jumping here on and off and
will not have time for a couple of days to really look into it. If you can
remind me that'd be great what I owe you, or NOT I owe you and I will
go back and look at what I said I was going to supply. It will just take
a little longer, sorry MY BAD NOT YOURS!
Kelly
06 Sep 14
Originally posted by Rajk999You can fall away from the Lord, I thought that was one of the things
According to Romans 8, if God has given you his Holy Spirit or if you have the Spirit of Christ in you, then you are not supposed to sin. You are supposed to be a new person living a new life of righteousness and good works.
If however you continue on with sin [or evil works] after receiving these gifts from God and after having your eyes opened then the ...[text shortened]... and they fell away.
So, clearly these Christians either dont read or dont follow the Bible.
you and I agreed on. If you love the world more, if you reject God, then
God will not force you to stay with Him against your will. No one can
force you away from God, and even when you start to pull away God will
fight for you, but God will not keep you against your will.
Kelly
Originally posted by Rajk999Jesus stressed how vital being born again was, we cannot enter the
According to Romans 8, if God has given you his Holy Spirit or if you have the Spirit of Christ in you, then you are not supposed to sin. You are supposed to be a new person living a new life of righteousness and good works.
If however you continue on with sin [or evil works] after receiving these gifts from God and after having your eyes opened then the ...[text shortened]... and they fell away.
So, clearly these Christians either dont read or dont follow the Bible.
Kingdom of God unless we are born of the Spirit of God. This
transformation cannot be self-generated as Jesus points out, Spirit gives
birth to spirit. Those of us who have not experienced God in this fashion
are still in their flesh as we were just born in the flesh.
John 3: New International Version (NIV)
5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”
Jesus continues with the distinction between those who do not put their
faith in Him, He declares that they are condemned already. That is the
state of man without God’s Spirit.
John 3: New International Version (NIV)
18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
God gives us His Spirit, who actually lives in us a deposit upon our lives.
We are to walk out our lives doing good works, in Him. He is to be our
guide, our teacher, our helper.
2 Timothy 1:13-15New International Version (NIV)
13 What you heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus. 14 Guard the good deposit that was entrusted to you—guard it with the help of the Holy Spirit who lives in us.
Those who are only born to the flesh are there, they are not in the Spirit
of God, they have not accepted Jesus Christ, their lives are simply
hostile towards God. So I do not see anyone who isn’t in God
pleasing God let alone being accepted by God outside of Jesus Chrst.
Romans 8:New International Version (NIV)
5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. 7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.
9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.
Does help you understand me?
Kelly
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10 Sep 14
Originally posted by KellyJayDo you have any scripture at all to support these claims?
You can fall away from the Lord, I thought that was one of the things
you and I agreed on. If you love the world more, if you reject God, then
God will not force you to stay with Him against your will. No one can
force you away from God, and even when you start to pull away God will
fight for you, but God will not keep you against your will.
Kelly
Originally posted by divegeesterWhy must every concept known to man be supported by scripture?
Do you have any scripture at all to support these claims?
God doesn't tell us how to build rocket engines, either.
But all you have to do is read the Bible with love of God in your heart, and it will speak to you.
And he did provide scripture regarding being born again. And that's the important part of what he said.
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11 Sep 14
Originally posted by KellyJaySorry, Kelly i don't want to make a big issue here but I find some of you your posts like this one to be vague claims about what are actually quite serious issues related to the Christian experience.
What claim do you need scripture for, that God would force someone against
their will to enter His Kingdom? That you can fall away? What?
Kelly
For example "you can fall away from The Lord" what does this mean in the context of this thread; Does it mean losing ones salvation? Or just drifting off for a while?
I feel that if a Christian makes a claim relating to the spiritual Christian experience it should be directly referenced to scripture - the bigger the of more serious the claim the more scriptural veracity is required.
For example the doctrine of eternal suffering - a critical belief affecting the way God himself is viewed and yet is only tenuously mentioned in scripture.
11 Sep 14
Originally posted by divegeesterNo need to be sorry, I'm glad you asked specifically.
Sorry, Kelly i don't want to make a big issue here but I find some of you your posts like this one to be vague claims about what are actually quite serious issues related to the Christian experience.
For example "you can fall away from The Lord" what does this mean in the context of this thread; Does it mean losing ones salvation? Or just drifting of ...[text shortened]... belief affecting the way God himself is viewed and yet is only tenuously mentioned in scripture.
I just started my long work week so it may take a little time to put together
scripture for you, so sorry for the delay up front.
Kelly
11 Sep 14
Originally posted by divegeesterWhen we see a warning about some danger near us we typically pay
Sorry, Kelly i don't want to make a big issue here but I find some of you your posts like this one to be vague claims about what are actually quite serious issues related to the Christian experience.
For example "you can fall away from The Lord" what does this mean in the context of this thread; Does it mean losing ones salvation? Or just drifting of ...[text shortened]... belief affecting the way God himself is viewed and yet is only tenuously mentioned in scripture.
attention, and we are warned within scripture in several places that we
need to be very careful not to fall away. One of the first scriptures God
ever used on me was to parable about the seeds and the sower, the seeds
that fell on the rocks were like those that received the Word with joy, but
because they didn’t have any root they only lasted a short time and
temptation caused them to fall away. (Luke 8:13).
One of the great signs about the end times before the man of sin is
revealed there will be a falling away first (2 Thessalonians 2:3) which
means these people were where they were supposed to be then left falling
back into the world. Even Paul did not take lightly the danger he spoke
about it in (1 Corinthians 9:27), Paul goes on in chapter 10 of the same
book about warning others and showing us how others fell away during
different times in scripture, with the clear warning in the 12th verse that
him who thinks he sands take heed least he fall.
If it were not possible to fall away than why would Hebrews 6:4-6 talk
about those that were once enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly
gift, who were partakers of the Holy Ghost if they should fall away to renew
them again unto repentance seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of
God afresh and put Him to open shame.
Accepting Christ is the beginning, not the end we are to press forward for
the prize of the high calling of Christ! So yes, I do believe one can accept
Christ and turn away leaving their only hope for salvation if they truly were
saved and received God's Holy Spirit. I do think some have a chance where
they never really knew the Lord and walked away from some fake belief
system they had that was never based upon the reality of Jesus Christ.
Kelly
Philippians 3
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.