17 Mar 12
Originally posted by FMFSo when you were a Christian did you have a relationship with God through Jesus
Well I am a theist now and not a Christian anymore. That is what I am asking you about. I do not say "there isn't a god". I was a Christian. Now I am not.
Christ or were you just play acting?
Kelly
17 Mar 12
Originally posted by KellyJayI was, as I have said repeatedly, a Christian.
So when you were a Christian did you have a relationship with God through Jesus
Christ or were you just play acting?
If someone was, say, a Muslim for 20-30 years and then converted to, say, Catholicism. Would you claim that they were never really a Muslim throughout those 20-30 years?
17 Mar 12
Originally posted by FMFI get what you claimed you were, not denyiing that...my question to you wasn't
I was, as I have said repeatedly, a Christian.
If someone was, say, a Muslim for 20-30 years and then converted to, say, Catholicism. Would you claim that they were never really a Muslim throughout those 20-30 years?
that you claimed you were a Christian, it was did you have a relationship with God
through Jesus Christ? Anyone can make the claim they were a Christian, Muslim,
and so on. Our claims not with standing do not make us what we claim to be in all
cases, we can claim to be baseball players but if we never really played baseball
our claims run against reality. If you want to define anyone who claims they were
a Christain as the only thing that makes them Christian than sure you can be
a Christain in your eyes, or someone claims they were a moonwalker. I define
Christian as people who have a right relationship with God through Jesus Christ, if
you had that than walked away from it I will acknowledge you were a Christian.
Kelly
17 Mar 12
Originally posted by KellyJayI was a Christian, Kelly. Take it from me. I really don't know what to make of your conjecture about false claims and deception and 'moonwalkers' and baseball players. I was a Christian. So, now, I am curious; how do you figure that someone who was a Christian, and then at a later point wasn't, was never a Christian? Are you not concerned about coming across as presumptuous?
I get what you claimed you were, not denyiing that...my question to you wasn't
that you claimed you were a Christian, it was did you have a relationship with God
through Jesus Christ? Anyone can make the claim they were a Christian, Muslim,
and so on. Our claims not with standing do not make us what we claim to be in all
cases, we can claim to be baseb ...[text shortened]... esus Christ, if
you had that than walked away from it I will acknowledge you were a Christian.
17 Mar 12
Originally posted by KellyJayYou ignored this question for some reason: if someone was, say, a Muslim for 20-30 years and then converted to, say, Catholicism. Would you claim that they were never really a Muslim throughout those 20-30 years?
Anyone can make the claim they were a Christian, Muslim, and so on.
17 Mar 12
Originally posted by FMFThe question the Muslim of 20-30 years has to answer is did he have a personal relationship with the prophet Mohammed? 😀
You ignored this question for some reason: if someone was, say, a Muslim for 20-30 years and then converted to, say, Catholicism. Would you claim that they were never really a Muslim throughout those 20-30 years?
17 Mar 12
Originally posted by Rajk999Surely by the same rationale anyone can claim to have a personal relationship with Jesus or the prophet Mohammed, but only the other party can confirm said relationship and neither of them are answering the phone just now, thus rendering the claim meaningless.
The question the Muslim of 20-30 years has to answer is did he have a personal relationship with the prophet Mohammed? 😀
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17 Mar 12
Originally posted by kevcvs57That's right. Why would FMF's saying he had a personal relationship with Christ carry any more or less weight than his saying he was a Christian? We learn to use figures of speech. Some of us did not learn to testify to our faith in the ways that others learned. But there are no magically credible words. Are there?
Surely by the same rationale anyone can claim to have a personal relationship with Jesus or the prophet Mohammed, but only the other party can confirm said relationship and neither of them are answering the phone just now, thus rendering the claim meaningless.
17 Mar 12
Originally posted by kevcvs57Correct. Tell that to KellyJay.
Surely by the same rationale anyone can claim to have a personal relationship with Jesus or the prophet Mohammed, but only the other party can confirm said relationship and neither of them are answering the phone just now, thus rendering the claim meaningless.
18 Mar 12
Egypt's Coptic Christian Pope Shenouda III Dies
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-17416429
Egypt's Coptic Christian Pope Shenouda III has died at the age of 88, state television has announced.
The leader of the Middle East's largest Christian minority was reported to suffer from cancer that had spread to several organs.
Coptic Christians make up 10% of Egypt's population of 80 million.
After attacks on Coptic Christians in recent years, Pope Shenouda urged officials to do more to address the community's concerns.
Pope Shenouda led the church, one of the oldest Christian communities in the world, for four decades.
18 Mar 12
Originally posted by FMFFMF , the line of 'reasoning' being used by Kelly is that if you had a real relationship with God / Jesus then you would 'still' be a christian.
You ignored this question for some reason: if someone was, say, a Muslim for 20-30 years and then converted to, say, Catholicism. Would you claim that they were never really a Muslim throughout those 20-30 years?
Given that you no longer are - then the relationship you once had with God / Jesus was (obviously) not a 'true' one.
Standard fundy position.....
18 Mar 12
Originally posted by nook7It's a position that is totally divorced from the reality of the human condition and the reality of living-breathing people's individual spiritual paths. All it is, is a giant, presumptuous, self-sanctified No True Scotsman logical fallacy.
FMF , the line of 'reasoning' being used by Kelly is that if you had a real relationship with God / Jesus then you would 'still' be a christian.
Given that you no longer are - then the relationship you once had with God / Jesus was (obviously) not a 'true' one.
Standard fundy position.....
18 Mar 12
Originally posted by FMFExactly.
It's a position that is totally divorced from the reality of the human condition and the reality of living-breathing people's individual spiritual paths. All it is, is a giant, presumptuous, self-sanctified No True Scotsman logical fallacy.
When ones head is buried in the sand it is hard to see.
18 Mar 12
Originally posted by JS357He would only be lying if he said it anyway. 😏
That's right. Why would FMF's saying he had a personal relationship with Christ carry any more or less weight than his saying he was a Christian? We learn to use figures of speech. Some of us did not learn to testify to our faith in the ways that others learned. But there are no magically credible words. Are there?