Originally posted by sumydid
1. Believers don't randomly pick whatever belief and just blindly stick to it.
2. We didn't just pick up a book at random,

1. Yes you do. random insofar as to what culture you were born into.

2. Yes you did.

Originally posted by sumydid
Believers don't randomly pick whatever belief and just blindly stick to it. Believers are convinced their beliefs are true because of our own personal experiences and how those experiences mesh with the Scriptures we read.

I don't really object to you basing your beliefs on personal experiences, and to some extent I have no problem with you accepting as fact what you read in a book you trust.
What I find absolutely ridiculous, is your belief that you are infallible, and that your personal experiences and what you read in the scriptures somehow lead you to be an expert at biology, philosophy, logic, quantum physics, cosmology amongst others and that if you say 2+2=5 then you are right and I am wrong and that when I question your claim that 2+2=5, I am attaching your faith because I secretly want to learn the truth but am ashamed of all the sins I have committed so I am running away.

Originally posted by twhitehead
I don't really object to you basing your beliefs on personal experiences, and to some extent I have no problem with you accepting as fact what you read in a book you trust.
What I find absolutely ridiculous, is your belief that you are infallible, and that your personal experiences and what you read in the scriptures somehow lead you to be an expert at ...[text shortened]... y want to learn the truth but am ashamed of all the sins I have committed so I am running away.

Isn't this what you logicians describe as a straw man argument?

I never saw him say he was infallible or that he is an expert on those fields.

I've asked you this before, but will you please stop making things up and then claiming those things are real then using those "facts" to attack Christians?

Stop the distortions. Seriously, it's getting old.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Isn't this what you logicians describe as a straw man argument?

I never saw him say he was infallible or that he is an expert on those fields.

Have you read all the threads he has posted in recently. Go back and review them.
Then withdraw your strawman argument that I said that he said that he was infallible. I said that he believes he is infallible. Pay attention.

I've asked you this before, but will you please stop making things up and then claiming those things are real then using those "facts" to attack Christians?
Once again I ask you to go back through his recent posts and you will find that it is he that has been mis-quoting me and accusing me of saying things I never said and believing things I do not believe, and secretly being ashamed of my sin.

Stop the distortions. Seriously, it's getting old.
And your vendetta against me is seriously getting old. Why not try debating some of the actual issues instead of always resorting to personal attacks? Yes, I know that you base everything on faith alone, but then you should be on my side and arguing against people like sonship and sumydid who think they have good scientific evidence for some of their claims.

Originally posted by Suzianne
I never saw him say he was infallible .....

Let me explain this. I asked him how we were different in the way we evaluate the world. His response is that:

The only probability us Christians have to work out is, whether or not reality is what it is, whether the biblical account can be trusted, and whether or not we are absolutely insane.

I ask you to go back and read his whole post so see the full context.
But note what he says, the only time he used probability to evaluate anything was the above quote. After becoming Christian, he is infallible. He has nothing new to learn, nothing new to judge the validity of. He quite clearly states this, and points out that I am different because I must keep learning and keep evaluating things. Read through his post carefully and tell me again whether or not I am twisting what he said.

Originally posted by sumydid
Nope, not a jab at all. In fact, I even admitted to being trapped in the same probability equation. It is highly probable to me that my experiences are real.

So did you miss that, or are you again, just leaping at the opportunity to bully others.

Anything positive and relevant to say?

Anything positive and relevant to say?
All probabilities are >= 0 How does that grab ya? (not negative in the slightest)

However in your case lim_{N->infinity}P(some god which exists is a stupid god | at least one out of N possible gods exist) ~= 0

Hope this helps 🙂

Originally posted by sumydid
Nope, not a jab at all. In fact, I even admitted to being trapped in the same probability equation. It is highly probable to me that my experiences are real.

So did you miss that, or are you again, just leaping at the opportunity to bully others.

Anything positive and relevant to say?

"I even admitted to being trapped in the same probability equation".

Yeah Mr 'pants on fire' that was after my initial response to your initial swipe at 'skeptics' so do you have anything useful, or even honest to contribute or will you just continue to misrepresent posters in the name of the lord?


"It is highly probable to me that my experiences are real."

See what you are doing there, you are trying draw an equivalence between your feelings concerning a highly improbable reality and mathmatical probability. again is this merely confusion or another attempt at selling 'snake oil'?

Originally posted by sumydid
It occurs to me that everything the skeptic believes in (other than his or own personal existence) is based on probability. That's right I said it.

Skeptics, boil down everything you "know" to be true and it will end up with nothing more than a probability equation resulting in a belief.

What exactly is your point?

Also, how are "non-skeptics" different?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
What exactly is your point?

Also, how are "non-skeptics" different?

I don't think he really though this through as a decent OP topic - perhaps a post...
And if he did, then then he was obviously trying to pick a fight 🙂