Originally posted by KellyJaySonship is preaching a doctrine contrary to the doctrine of Christ and I need to pray so that I could believe in his doctrine? Have you taken leave of your senses?
You should take some time and pray about these things. I fail to grasp how you can read
what he wrote to you, and the way he spelled it out that you just simply ignore the
scriptures.
No where did anyone say your faith would be workless, yet you keep bringing that up as
if we are. No one says that love isn't important, yet you brought that up as if t ...[text shortened]... d do the works of God, which is believing
in Jesus and doing for others those things they need.
You pray so that you can believe in Sonship .. you do that.
Originally posted by Rajk999You've rightly admonished others for refusing to directly address passages that you've cited, so why are you refusing to directly address passages that I've cited?
Again you are taking one statement of Jesus and running with that.
Yes, those that fail to follow Christ commandments are destroyed. Christ will determine who succeeds and who fails.
There is forgiveness for some of those that fail.
Again you are taking one statement of Jesus and running with that.
Why make such an obviously false claim? I've already cited TWO different passages containing statements made by Jesus that BOTH prove my point: John 8:31-36 and John 15:1-10. The only passage that you've countered with is Hebrews 1:1-3 which DOES NOT contain statements made by Jesus while you inexplicably say things such as, "Christ is our authority. Nobody else."
Here's a THIRD passage that proves my point:
Matthew 13
36Then He left the crowds and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him and said, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.” 37And He said, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man, 38and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one; 39and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are angels. 40“So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age. 41“The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, 42and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43“Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.
I can provide more if need be. It's a concept that Jesus repeats often and in several different ways.
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneYou are trying to say that Christ wants zero sins, otherwise there is no eternal life. So although there are such passages which say that, it has to be taken along with other passages about forgiveness.
You've rightly admonished others for refusing to directly address passages that you've cited, so why are you refusing to directly address passages that I've cited?
[b]Again you are taking one statement of Jesus and running with that.
Why make such an obviously false claim? I've already cited TWO different passages containing statements made by J ...[text shortened]... provide more if need be. It's a concept that Jesus repeats often and in several different ways.[/b]
Forgiveness cancels sins. Those who repent and God forgives their sin, that sin is as good as if it never happened. Certainly that cannot continue and there is a point when forgiveness is not given.
Christ advised his followers to forgive others and in turn God will forgive their sins:
For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. (Mat 6:14-15)
So the question is what is the point of forgiveness if the person is still condemned?
Originally posted by Rajk999You did not address what he said, you went after points that were not being made, those
Sonship is preaching a doctrine contrary to the doctrine of Christ and I need to pray so that I could believe in his doctrine? Have you taken leave of your senses?
You pray so that you can believe in Sonship .. you do that.
you hammered correctly, the only issue was no one was saying them.
13 Sep 15
Originally posted by Rajk999For someone who claims you don't like speaking about your life, you do spend a great deal
Sonship is preaching a doctrine contrary to the doctrine of Christ and I need to pray so that I could believe in his doctrine? Have you taken leave of your senses?
You pray so that you can believe in Sonship .. you do that.
of time insulting others lives. I do not pray so I can believe in Sonship, it is insulting to
suggest that.
13 Sep 15
Originally posted by Rajk999"You pray so that you can believe in Sonship .. you do that."
Whose life did I insult?
When I'm in these types of discussions I ask God to not let my pride stand in the way
of His truth. You are suggesting I ask God to believe in something some human is saying
just because it is them saying it. I find you insulting when you do that! I asked you to pray
about the scriptures, I'm not asking you to pray to make sure you believe in anything
Sonship says because it is him saying it.
Originally posted by KellyJayDid I not also quote scriptures ?
"You pray so that you can believe in Sonship .. you do that."
When I'm in these types of discussions I ask God to not let my pride stand in the way
of His truth. You are suggesting I ask God to believe in something some human is saying
just because it is them saying it. I find you insulting when you do that! I asked you to pray
about the scriptures, I ...[text shortened]... king you to pray to make sure you believe in anything
Sonship says because it is him saying it.
I believe in what Christ and the Apostles said. You want me to believe in Sonships' interpretation of what they said. So you suggested that I pray for God to guide me to believe in Sonships interpretation.
The most important thing in the teachings of Christ and the Apostles is charitable love and good works. It is NOT FAITH. I quoted many passages from Christ and all the apostles that says it.
So you believe what you like. I do not aspire to be like you people so I do not intend to pray and ask God to make me believe your doctrine.
I still dont understand what is the insult. If anything you are the one that insulted me with your advice to pray about anything pertaining to your doctrine.
13 Sep 15
Originally posted by Rajk999I'm not looking for his interpretation or yours to tell you the truth, you both used scripture
Did I not also quote scriptures ?
I believe in what Christ and the Apostles said. You want me to believe in Sonships' interpretation of what they said. So you suggested that I pray for God to guide me to believe in Sonships interpretation.
The most important thing in the teachings of Christ and the Apostles is charitable love and good works. It is NOT ...[text shortened]... re the one that insulted me with your advice to pray about anything pertaining to your doctrine.
to make different points. You seem to suggest that it is only when you quote the
scriptures that the truth is being displayed, because I guess when you do it that is when
we see what Christ and the Apostles actually mean, and when someone else does it that
does not agree with you and they quote scripture you do not grant them the same status.
Sort of makes you what the Pope?
You do a lot of bait and switch, we bring up one thing you ignore what is said and debate
a different topic.
I would never ask God for you or anyone to believe my doctrine, only God's matters. I do
not assume I'm flawless, do you?
13 Sep 15
Originally posted by Rajk999I'm not going to explain why what you said was insulting if you didn't understand it the first
Did I not also quote scriptures ?
I believe in what Christ and the Apostles said. You want me to believe in Sonships' interpretation of what they said. So you suggested that I pray for God to guide me to believe in Sonships interpretation.
The most important thing in the teachings of Christ and the Apostles is charitable love and good works. It is NOT ...[text shortened]... re the one that insulted me with your advice to pray about anything pertaining to your doctrine.
time I'm sure saying it again will fall on deaf ears as well.
13 Sep 15
Originally posted by KellyJayIf instead of disagreeing with sonship, I had agreed with what he said, there would have been no cause for you to advise me to pray over the issue now would there? Answer that question .. You would have been fine with my agreement.
I'm not going to explain why what you said was insulting if you didn't understand it the first
time I'm sure saying it again will fall on deaf ears as well.
Your suggestion for me to pray is to get me to think like you OSAS people...correct?
Do you understand how and why that is an insult?
Anyway, a lot of what I say is upsetting to your belief and it is causing you to wonder... because I am not analyzing or explaining or giving any long drawn out lecture .. all I do is quote simple plain passages from Christ and the Apostles .. and it is obvious to anyone reading them, what they are saying. You cannot deny the truth ..
Faith alone people have the wrong doctrine. Christ does not support faith alone. Christ is about love and good works.. Get that in your head.
13 Sep 15
Originally posted by Rajk999"OSAS people" what does that mean?
If instead of disagreeing with sonship, I had agreed with what he said, there would have been no cause for you to advise me to pray over the issue now would there? Answer that question .. You would have been fine with my agreement.
Your suggestion for me to pray is to get me to think like you OSAS people...correct?
Do you understand how and why that ...[text shortened]... hrist does not support faith alone. Christ is about love and good works.. Get that in your head.
13 Sep 15
Originally posted by Rajk999You really do take a lot of what people say and inject things not said so you can ignore
If instead of disagreeing with sonship, I had agreed with what he said, there would have been no cause for you to advise me to pray over the issue now would there? Answer that question .. You would have been fine with my agreement.
Your suggestion for me to pray is to get me to think like you OSAS people...correct?
Do you understand how and why that ...[text shortened]... hrist does not support faith alone. Christ is about love and good works.. Get that in your head.
their points.
With respect to your question about what if you and he agreed, something as important
as that I'd hope you make it a prayerful topic even if all three of us agreed.
The trouble with your quoting is that you ignore scripture quoted to you on topic, what you
tend to do is bring up other scripture on a different topic and get bent out of shape on
another point no one has made.
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13 Sep 15
Adhering to a set of doctrines does not make you a Christian. Sitting in a church does not make you a Christian anymore than sitting in a garage makes you a car.
The only way you can become a Christian is to receive and make Jesus your Lord and have Him change your heart.
It is an internal change, a change in nature. This is what will transform a life.
Then renewing the mind and learning who you are in Christ is what results in the more than abundant life today.