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11 Sep 15
2 edits
Originally posted by twhiteheadwrong person, deleted..
Can you Suzianne point to any thread where you were not displaying extreme cynicism and essentially trying to poison the thread? Would you characterize your engagements in this forum as mostly cynical or not?
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11 Sep 15
Originally posted by Rajk999Do you keep the commandments of Christ? I say it is not humanly possible to do so.
I guess I should say thank you. Could it be that you are not aware that those references speak in support of what I keep saying, and actually contradict the doctrine propagated by you, by KJ, by Sonship and others?
I say:it is when someone obeys Christ, follows his commandments, live righteously, practices brotherly love and charity, it is only then that ...[text shortened]... ou accept Christ, Christ says abracadabra and you automatically become righteous.
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That is why we receive Grace and the righteousness of God when you get "born again" along with a new nature.
Do you turn the other cheek? Do you get angry? Do you accuse other Christian brothers? Do you try to ridicule them and insult them? I have seen this from you here on this forum, so I'll answer your question... NO! You do not keep the commandments of Christ.
So please stop trying to tell us what the bible says, and learn to walk the walk yourself.
Take the beam out of your own eye before you try to correct others.
11 Sep 15
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneNow thats taking only a couple of verses without seeing the whole story. There is always in the Bible a description of what perfection is and man is expected to strive for that goal. But God knows that most people cannot make so there is a provision:
As I showed in Ezekiel 18 and John 8, both God and Jesus expect man to be capable of no longer committing sin. Either you believe God and Jesus or you don't. Why don't you believe them?
Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
(Heb 4:14-16)
There are several similar verses. Christ is there as a mediatro to make intercession for the sins of men. God will forgive. However there comes a point with forgiveness expires. God alone knows when that point is reached.
11 Sep 15
Originally posted by checkbaiterYou are a small mind. You lack to ability to discuss the Bible with getting your personal life involved.
Do you keep the commandments of Christ? I say it is not humanly possible to do so.
That is why we receive Grace and the righteousness of God when you get "born again" along with a new nature.
Do you turn the other cheek? Do you get angry? Do you accuse other Christian brothers? Do you try to ridicule them and insult them? I have seen this from you here ...[text shortened]... to walk the walk yourself.
Take the beam out of your own eye before you try to correct others.
Whether or not I sin is irrelevant to the teachings of Christ and the Apostles.
You do not know what commandments I keep and what I do not keep.
I have never told you what you keep and what you do not keep.
I do not know you personally and I would like to keep it that way.
If you have the mentality of a teenager try facebook and go post a few pictures of yourself with your new dress on .. ok ? 😀
11 Sep 15
Originally posted by Rajk999In Ezekiel 18 and John 8 respectively, God and Jesus make clear their expectations. Do you disagree?
Now thats taking only a couple of verses without seeing the whole story. There is always in the Bible a description of what perfection is and man is expected to strive for that goal. But God knows that most people cannot make so there is a provision:
[i]Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, le ...[text shortened]... owever there comes a point with forgiveness expires. God alone knows when that point is reached.
Should the words of Paul and his followers be allowed to override the word of God and Jesus? If so, why?
11 Sep 15
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneThere is no over-riding Christ. You for one should know that I dont believe in doing that.
In Ezekiel 18 and John 8 respectively, God and Jesus make clear their expectations. Do you disagree?
Should the words of Paul and his followers be allowed to override the word of God and Jesus? If so, why?
Christ himself spoke of forgiveness for sins. Do you need the references?
Originally posted by Rajk999In Ezekiel 18, God explains how it works:
There is no over-riding Christ. You for one should know that I dont believe in doing that.
Christ himself spoke of forgiveness for sins. Do you need the references?
21“But if the wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed and observes all My statutes and practices justice and righteousness, he shall surely live; he shall not die. 22“All his transgressions which he has committed will not be remembered against him; because of his righteousness which he has practiced, he will live.
If you think you have verses where Jesus explains differently, then by all means, post them.
12 Sep 15
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneThere are several conversations in which I never participate mostly because it a waste of time - trying to convince a professed atheist that there is a God, arguing about creation v evolution and this one now ... confusing the Old with the New Testaments.
In Ezekiel 18, God explains how it works:
[quote] 21[b]“But if the wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed and observes all My statutes and practices justice and righteousness, he shall surely live; he shall not die. 22“All his transgressions which he has committed will not be remembered against him; because of his righteous ...[text shortened]...
If you think you have verses where Jesus explains differently, then by all means, post them.
So you are on your own here. If you want to discuss what Christ said about forgiveness and sins then we can discuss that. Comparing Ezekiel with Christ is stupid as far as I can see.
Christ is the mediator of the New Covenant and the Old is done away with. Christ is the new authority .. not the Prophets. Read this .. and there are more like these that say that the prophets did not know everything .. Christ alone knows :
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; (Heb 1:1-3)
Christ is our authority. Nobody else.
Originally posted by Rajk999What Jesus taught while He walked the Earth is consistent with the concepts I've highlighted in Ezekiel 18. If you don't believe that that is true, then show me where Jesus differs.
There are several conversations in which I never participate mostly because it a waste of time - trying to convince a professed atheist that there is a God, arguing about creation v evolution and this one now ... confusing the Old with the New Testaments.
So you are on your own here. If you want to discuss what Christ said about forgiveness and sins then ...[text shortened]... the right hand of the Majesty on high; (Heb 1:1-3)[/i]
Christ is our authority. Nobody else.
Here's an example from John 15:
John 15
1“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. 3“You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. 5“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. 6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. 7“If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8“My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples. 9“Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love. 10“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.
Those who do not keep the commandments of Jesus, do not abide in His love and are "cast into the fire" and "are burned". Jesus also sets the standard for keeping His commandments which is " just as [He has] kept [His] Father’s commandments.
This is also consistent with the passage from John 8 which I cited earlier and the concepts I highlighted from Ezekiel 18.
12 Sep 15
Originally posted by Rajk999
There are several conversations in which I never participate mostly because it a waste of time - trying to convince a professed atheist that there is a God, arguing about creation v evolution and this one now ... confusing the Old with the New Testaments.
So you are on your own here. If you want to discuss what Christ said about forgiveness and sins then ...[text shortened]... the right hand of the Majesty on high; (Heb 1:1-3)[/i]
Christ is our authority. Nobody else.
Christ is our authority. Nobody else.
If you believe this to be true, then why cite Hebrews 1:1-3?
12 Sep 15
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneAgain you are taking one statement of Jesus and running with that.
What Jesus taught while He walked the Earth is consistent with the concepts I've highlighted in Ezekiel 18. If you don't believe that that is true, then show me where Jesus differs.
Here's an example from John 15:
[quote]John 15
1“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and ...[text shortened]... th the passage from John 8 which I cited earlier and the concepts I highlighted from Ezekiel 18.
Yes, those that fail to follow Christ commandments are destroyed. Christ will determine who succeeds and who fails.
There is forgiveness for some of those that fail.
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Originally posted by Rajk999wrote a post saying that the Christians never graduates from.
I refered to First Timothy 1:4,5.
You reply:
You are another one like KJ. What you believe is NOT IN THE BIBLE.
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First Timothy 1:4,5 is in the Bible.
Paul never graduated from his exercising of faith in order to LIVE Christ.
"And the life which I now I live in the flesh I live in FAITH, the FAITH of the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself up for me." (Galatians 2:20b)
He did not just ONCE apply faith. He went ON to live the rest of his Christian life in faith. And you say this is not in the Bible.
After many years Christ wanted to be FOUND in the living Person of Christ and living in FAITH.
" And be found in Him, not having my own righteousness which is out of the law, but that which is through FAITH in Christ, the righteousness which is out of God and based on faith." (Phil. 3:9)
What kind of righteousness did Paul want to be found living ? He wanted to live the righteousness which out of God and " BASED ON FAITH. "
His obedience is all still in faith. Paul HAD Christ and sought by faith to GAIN Christ.
" ... I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as refuse that I may gain Christ, To know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His suffering, being conformed to His death ..." (Phil. 3:10a)
And you say to know Christ is not essential to living the Christian life. We never graduate from having to have faith in Him and having the need to know Him. And you say this is not in the Bible.
You [and the preacher you follow] fabricate doctrines which are contrary to the teachings of Christ and the Apostles.
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What kind of crackpot accusation is this ? My FAITH in Christ ever needs expanding, deepening. The righteousness that I gain as Christian must be out of God and based on faith.
What kind of crackpot brainwashing have you had charging at faith like a bull charging at a red blanket of the matador ?
The New Testament said "the end of the charge is love out of a pure heart ... and unfeigned faith." (1 Timothy 1:5) . That is not just he BEGINNING of the charge, but the END of the charge - love and unfeigned faith.
Any obedience is also a matter of faith in Christ. It is true that the Christians obedience should grow and deepen. It matures as FAITH expands and grows to take Christ more and more in more areas of the heart.
This is why the Apostle said Christ makes His home in the hearts of Christians through faith.
" That Christ may make His home in your hearts through faith, ..." (Ephesians 3:17)
I will never graduate from placing faith in Christ. This very day before me I will have the joyful experience of exercising faith in Christ to live Christ and obey the indwelling Holy Spirit.
Here is what you say:
The Christian never "graduates" from faith.
Utter nonsense. Probably it is YOU that never graduate from faith.
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Not only I never graduate. The Apostle Paul wanted to live on in the future living in the flesh in faith.
" And the life which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith of the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself up for me." (See Gal. 2:20)
Paul expected to live on until the end in faith. Where's the verse saying he no longer needed to have faith ?
Here is what Peter says:
And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. (2 Peter 1:5-9)
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None of this said by contradicts what I wrote at all. There is simply no contradiction there. And I would point out that all the attributes spoken of in verse 5 COME OUT OF "the divine nature" which has been imparted to the Christian in verse 4.
"Through which He has granted us precious and exceeding great promises that through these you might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption which is in the world through lust." (2 Peter 1:4)
Don't you think the Christian ever has to put FAITH in the "exceedingly great and precious promises" ? Taking the promses and trusting on them is a matter of faith.
And nothing can overcome the lust corrupting the world except the divine nature of God implanted into the believer. And the believer must exercise FAITH in that indwelling divine nature in order to escape and overcome and prevail. This is not just our doctrine. This is our experience.
Nothing in verses 5 onward negate the believer's need to grow in faith.
Peter is saying that you start off with faith. But you cannot end there. You MUST ADD to that faith:
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Since I believed in Jesus any encrease of real
'" - virtue
- knowledge
- temperance
- godliness
- brotherly kindness
- charity. "
have all be through faith in Christ. Where else can the Christian appropriate these virtues except out from Jesus Christ the Perfect Man ?
You start off with FAITH the least important of all virtues ...
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Crackpot Christian teaching.
And the end of Paul's life and ministry he said the he kept the faith, not that he discarded it or lost it.
" I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith." ( 2 Tim. 4:2)
Because he has kept the faith, growing in Christ, expanding in Christ, deepening in Christ, and allowing Christ to spread out more and more in his soul, even making His home in Paul's heart he is assured that a crownof righteousness awaits him in addition to eternal redemption.
"Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, with which the Lord the righteous Judge will recompense me in that day, and not only me but also all those who have loved His appearing." (v.8)
Originally posted by sonshipYour attempt at analyzing is a gross failure and leads to false doctrines. The simple facts from the Bible in plain english are as follows -
wrote a post saying that the Christians never graduates from.
I refered to [b]First Timothy 1:4,5.
You reply:
You are another one like KJ. What you believe is NOT IN THE BIBLE.
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First Timothy 1:4,5 is in the Bible.
Paul never graduated ...[text shortened]... that day, and not only me but also all those who have loved His appearing." (v.8) [/b] [/quote][/b]
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Faith without works is DEAD as a doorknob
You can have all the faith in the world but it is worth zilch because you have no charity,YOU ARE NOTHING.
Of these three, faith, hope and charity, the greatest of these is CHARITY, not faith.
Whoever keeps the commandments of Christ [= good works], the love of God is in that person, and it is that person in which God abides, Christ knows that person and abides in him and with him.
Why the hell you calling me Lord and you refuse to do what I say.!
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Faith is the starting point for the believer. Faith should make you grow into better things leading up to charity.
For you faith is it .. the end ... faith = eternal life....WRONG !
Christ disagrees with you. You are therefore deep in it ....
Originally posted by Rajk999You should take some time and pray about these things. I fail to grasp how you can read
Your attempt at analyzing is a gross failure and leads to false doctrines. The simple facts from the Bible in plain english are as follows -
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Faith without works is DEAD as a doorknob
You can have all the faith in the world but it is worth zilch because you have no charity,YOU ARE ...[text shortened]... faith = eternal life....WRONG !
Christ disagrees with you. You are therefore deep in it ....
what he wrote to you, and the way he spelled it out that you just simply ignore the
scriptures.
No where did anyone say your faith would be workless, yet you keep bringing that up as
if we are. No one says that love isn't important, yet you brought that up as if that were the
argument being made. You want to earn your way into God's good grace it cannot be
done, but you can through faith enter into it and do the works of God, which is believing
in Jesus and doing for others those things they need.