Memorable Conversions

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
You expect me to remember every word you said, yet it seems you cannot remember it either.

If you honestly think that I "cannot remember" what my views on "evil" and morality are, then you are a complete buffoon.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Here is a question I have never asked you: On what basis do you differentiate between 'good' and 'evil'? If you say that my view is incoherent I assume you think that you hold a more coherent view than mine.

Not only have I already addressed this issue in a direct conversation with you, I demonstrated why I believed my notions were more coherent than yours, with examples. If I recall, you blanked out most of what I said and eventually just pulled one of your ripcord questions.

Originally posted by FMF
No. I would say that anyone who acts upon their superstitions or religious beliefs in a grossly immoral way ~ from restriction of basic human rights at one end of the scale, to atrocities such as murder ~ is "evil".

I believe it is [b]actions that are "evil" and not ideas or beliefs that are not acted upon. Like I said, you claim God has co ...[text shortened]... unsound - or "evil", as you put it. I don't support there being such a thing as "thoughtcrimes".[/b]

So you would not say that executing over 600 prisoners as evil or taking female sex slaves as evil or taking a child bride as evil?

Originally posted by whodey
So you would not say that executing over 600 prisoners as evil or taking female sex slaves as evil or taking a child bride as evil?

In much the same way as much of what the Hebrews did to others and to themselves was "evil"? Yes I suppose so. But if the 600 executions etc. were "God's will", what do our outraged moral sensibilities matter? You also claim to know "God's will". You're a monotheist; if it turns out that hardline Muslims have got the God thing right, and you realize, will you continue to worship the Abrahamic God, or will you stop believing in Him and become a deist or an atheist or some such?

Originally posted by FMF
Not only have I already addressed this issue in a direct conversation with you, I demonstrated why I believed my notions were more coherent than yours, with examples. If I recall, you blanked out most of what I said and eventually just pulled one of your ripcord questions.

Actually from your point of view, what constitutes 'evil' is merely your subjective opinion over my 'subjective opinion', so it is not even logically possible from your point of view for your version of 'evil' to be more correct than mine. Can you you start to fathom that? But still you seem to ignore that.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Actually from your point of view, what constitutes 'evil' is merely your subjective opinion over my 'subjective opinion', so it is not even logically possible from your point of view for your version of 'evil' to be more correct than mine. Can you you start to fathom that? But still you seem to ignore that.

Goodness me. All we do here is exchange our opinions and offer our analysis and reasons. Perhaps you haven't fathomed that. If not, then it is more evidence that you are a buffoon.

Originally posted by FMF
In much the same way as much of what the Hebrews did to others and to themselves was "evil"? Yes I suppose so. But if the 600 executions etc. were "God's will", what do our outraged moral sensibilities matter? You also claim to know "God's will". You're a monotheist; if it turns out that hardline Muslims have got the God thing right, and you realize, will you ...[text shortened]... Abrahamic God, or will you stop believing in Him and become a deist or an atheist or some such?

What we are discussing are two major world religions, one with an open ended command to murder and the other not.

Originally posted by whodey
What we are discussing are two major world religions, one with an open ended command to murder and the other not.

And, as I have already said to you - I can't remember how many times before - if both you and I have got it wrong, and Islam IS AFTER ALL the true and one and only revelation of God, then your personal predilection for Christianity matters not one whit. If the Muslims who kill apostates are right about the divine command (that they perceive and sincerely believe in),then what they do isn't - to believers in the Abrahamic God, anyway - "murder" at all, but "righteous", "justice", and "God's will".

Originally posted by FMF
And, as I have already said to you - I can't remember how many times before - if both you and I have got it wrong, and Islam [b]IS AFTER ALL the true and one and only revelation of God, then your personal predilection for Christianity matters not one whit. If the Muslims who kill apostates are right about the divine command (that they perceive and si ...[text shortened]... rs in the Abrahamic God, anyway - "murder" at all, but "righteous", "justice", and "God's will".[/b]

So for the record, you think that Christianity is equivalent to Islam even though one religion has an open ended command to murder and the other does not?

Originally posted by whodey
So for the record, you think that Christianity is equivalent to Islam even though one religion has an open ended command to murder and the other does not?

Well I have condemned the murders that we have been discussing. You understand that, right? And I have dismissed out of hand - without reservation - any ludicrous attempts by the tiny minority of Muslims who "execute" people for apostasy and blasphemy to justify such killings on account of their sincere certainty that God has communicated with them.

You also have a sincere certainty that God has communicated with you, so you do have something in common with those murderers and with all other adherents to the Abrahamic faiths. You are both claiming that the Abrahamic God's will has been revealed to you

Furthermore, I find your professed notion of "perfect justice" in the afterlife to be infinitely more demented and depraved than the supposed "justice" that ISIS and the like are meting out in the here and now. The angry vengeful violence that you characterize as the "ultimate morality" is literally unimaginably unhinged and incoherent.

Both these notions of "justice" and "morality" - yours and those of ISIS type people - are a result of your being convinced that God has revealed Himself to you and has told you His Will. I have no reason to believe He has.

Originally posted by FMF
Well I have condemned the murders that we have been discussing. You understand that, right? And I have dismissed out of hand - without reservation - any ludicrous attempts by the tiny minority of Muslims who "execute" people for apostasy and blasphemy to justify such killings on account of their sincere certainty that God has communicated with them.

You also ...[text shortened]... t God has revealed Himself to you and has told you His Will. I have no reason to believe He has.

I'll try again, so you disregard the notion that Islam is far worse than Christianity even though Islam has an open ended command for its follower to murder other Muslims who leave the faith?

As for the rest of your dribble, it is not my morality nor my judgment that is on trial here. I make no judgments as to who should live, and who should be killed, nor do I have any regarding eternal fates, nor do I want to have that kind of power because I have no way of executing proper judgments.

Originally posted by whodey
I'll try again, so you disregard the notion that Islam is far worse than Christianity even though Islam has an open ended command for its follower to murder other Muslims who leave the faith?

No need to try again, whodey. I have answered you cogently and in some detail. Just read my posts again and engage what I am saying. Remember, I am talking to as a person - you - who claims the Abrahamic God has communicated with you. Everything I am saying to you is bearing that very much in mind. So there's no need for you to try again. Just listen to what I am saying. I'm not asking you to agree. Just listen.

Originally posted by whodey
As for the rest of your dribble, it is not my morality nor my judgment that is on trial here. I make no judgments as to who should live, and who should be killed, nor do I have any regarding eternal fates, nor do I want to have that kind of power because I have no way of executing proper judgments.

You have clear doctrines and detailed superstitious notions about what is "justice" and "morality" and what is "God's Will", so they are absolutely part of this discussion. I haven't accused you of having "power". I haven't accused you of wanting "power". You are scattering red herrings before you and hopping from one to the other.

Originally posted by FMF
No need to try again, whodey. I have answered you cogently and in some detail. Just read my posts again and engage what I am saying. Remember, I am talking to as a person - you - who claims the Abrahamic God has communicated with you. Everything I am saying to you is bearing that very much in mind. So there's no need for you to try again. Just listen to what I am saying. I'm not asking you to agree. Just listen.

No, this is about failing to condemn a religion that has given the power to it's followers to murder via an open ended command, something you fail to address.

As you point out, we all have a sense of right and wrong, some of it is right, some of it is wrong. Why then should we have the right to murder because of it?

Originally posted by whodey
No, this is about failing to condemn a religion that has given the power to it's followers to murder via an open ended command, something you fail to address.

If it's the Will of the Abrahamic God, then how is it "murder"? I am asking you as a believer in the Abrahamic God who also believes that the Abrahamic God's Will can be known.