Meat Eating

@divegeester said
You cherry pick the bits you like and which fit your beliefs. You admitted to it recently. We all do it.

I cherry pick from the teachings of Jesus Christ, the bits He said were critical for eternal life.

You cherry pick from the teachings of Paul the bits that appear to justify your faith only doctrine [aka the mouth worshippers doctrine].

We all do it. Your cherry picking leads to damnation, said James. Mine leads to eternal life, said Christ.

@rajk999 said
I cherry pick from the teachings of Jesus Christ, the bits He said were critical for eternal life.
You cherry pick from the teachings of Paul the bits that appear to justify your faith only doctrine [aka the mouth worshippers doctrine].
We all do it. Your cherry picking leads to damnation, said James. Mine leads to eternal life, said Christ.

It’s all just your bloated opinion

@divegeester said
The fall of man in the garden of Eden .

Of course.

To clarify, you consider the Adam and Eve story as a literal account of our origin and that we didn't evolve as a species? I'm a little confused as in your follow up post you say "Meat eating is endemic throughout nature, throughout all evolution..."

So, on one hand, you speak about the fall in the garden of Eden and on the other reference evolution. Which is it?! - It's one or the other. If we evolved then there was 'no' garden of Eden, and consequently 'no' fall.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
To clarify, you consider the Adam and Eve story as a literal account of our origin and that we didn't evolve as a species? I'm a little confused as in your follow up post you say "Meat eating is endemic throughout nature, throughout all evolution..."

So, on one hand, you speak about the fall in the garden of Eden and on the other reference evolution. Which is it?! ...[text shortened]... It's one or the other. If we evolved then there was 'no' garden of Eden, and consequently 'no' fall.

I’m following your two trains of discussion; one where you contend for God’s intentions as based on the bible, and the other where you talk about the evolution of our species.

@divegeester said
I’m following your two trains of discussion; one where you contend for God’s intentions as based on the bible, and the other where you talk about the evolution of our species.

We have already agreed that God originally prescribed man a vegetarian diet.

Clearly that was His preference for us.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
We have already agreed that God originally prescribed man a vegetarian diet.

Clearly that was His preference for us.

Clearly that was his preference for us at that time, agreed.
Since then God has created meat from nothing to be eaten in the feeding of the multitudes and he has even commanded Peter to “go kill and eat”.

So in the beginning God’s intention was for us to eat vegetation but since the fall and all which that entails it is God’s intentions that we eat meat. We are still in this period.

@divegeester said
Clearly that was his preference for us at that time, agreed.
Since then God has created meat from nothing to be eaten in the feeding of the multitudes and he has even commanded Peter to “go kill and eat”.

So in the beginning God’s intention was for us to eat vegetation but since the fall and all which that entails it is God’s intentions that we eat meat. We are still in this period.

The point is, not only was that His preference at the beginning, it is also His preference at the end. Take for example Revelation 22:2: "On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations." (There are others).

So at both ends, God's preference is for man to have a vegetarian diet. It is only in this in-between time he has permitted us to eat meat and only then because we fell from our perfect state. Think of it like getting a new car and not wanting anyone to smoke inside it. Once the car has become damaged however those original high standards are diminished and you start allowing people to smoke in it. This doesn't negate your original intent for the car to be a smoking-free zone. - God remember is also unchanging and omniscient. If he created us vegetarian then that clearly is what He wants for us, in a perfect world.

In regards to the 'go kill and eat' part I strongly recommend you go read independently some bible commentaries to verify that you have missed the underlying context of that vision. If you only take away the face value of the words you have misunderstood the passage.

God's unchanging intention is for us to be vegetarian. He has merely lessened his expectations and given permission to eat meat, due to our human frailties. It, therefore, seems prudent for a Christian to follow a vegetarian diet, not because God currently expects that but because that was His divine intent, at the beginning and for the end.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
The point is, not only was that His preference at the beginning, it is also His preference at the end. Take for example Revelation 22:2: "On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations." (There are others).

So at both ends, God's preferenc ...[text shortened]... God currently expects that but because that was His divine intent, at the beginning and for the end.

I’m not sure why you feel the need to keep repeating yourself, it’s as though you cannot process disagreement with your hardwired perspective. I’m completely clear on what you think about the way God is presented in the bible and in my view you are partly correct as I’ve already said.

I’ve read many Bible commentaries on the topics I’m interested in as I’m sure you have when you studied your course and firmed up your own views. But thanks for the suggestion anyway, very thoughtful of you to help me understand you more clearly, but not at all necessary.

I think you would benefit from some further reading on the nature of God and obedience. I think you will find that God is explicit in his commands irrespective of wether they hold a wider, deeper of more profound vision.

The command to Peter to go kill and eat was indeed a command and was linked to the freedom of the wider law but was specifically using the killing of and eating of animals. Furthermore the old covenant is built on the the premise of forgiveness through the shedding of animal blood. If God was of the mindset which you are projecting onto him in this thread then I doubt very much that he would be demanding hundreds of years of animal sacrifices and subsequently commanding his apostles and the entirety of Christianity to kill and eat meat. He would in fact still be promoting vegetarianism.

In short I think that you may be projecting your own theistic biases onto a backdrop of some schooling you understood a while ago which is also reinforced by your personal eating habits and attitudes to animal welfare.

@divegeester said
Furthermore the old covenant is built on the the premise of forgiveness through the shedding of animal blood. If God was of the mindset which you are projecting onto him in this thread then I doubt very much that he would be demanding hundreds of years of animal sacrifices and subsequently commanding his apostles and the entirety of Christianity to kill and eat meat. He would in fact still be promoting vegetarianism.

Yes, the Bible is indeed full of contradictions and distinctly 'ungodly' behaviour.

Thank you for highlighting this.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Yes, the Bible is indeed full of contradictions and distinctly 'ungodly' behaviour.

Thank you for highlighting this.

I have neither highlighted any contradictions in the bible, nor have I used the word “ungodly”, so there is no need for you to type it inside quotation marks and infer that I’ve even suggested it. Even if I had it would be an irrelevance to the finely made point I’ve put to you.

Perhaps you’ve run out of ideas or, as I said earlier, you just have difficulty processing disagreement with your pet belief is.

Lord, please be kind to that cursed, wayward carnivore who's lupine essence is known only unto you.

God Be Sparing
🐺

@rajk999 said
The bible calls atheists fools. How God will judge these fools is not my concern. .. dont really care. However its not an event they will enjoy unless they were living according to the commandments of Christ, and I know some profess to accept Christ's teachings as worthy and good doctrines to follow, though they they are atheists.

I reckon I live a fairly 'good' life; I love and respect all living things, I step over ants, that kind of thing. I never deliberately do harm to or harbour ill - will toward anybody, and help quite a few people in the small Indonesian village in which I live. We've been buying sacks of rice for the villagers throughout the pandemic so that nobody goes hungry, we sponsor kids through school and university, we've built a clinic which is permanently staffed and saved a few lives that way. We bought the village a mini - bus to get the kids to school, we've done stuff. The Christian church in the village has done....Absolutely nothing. Church services have been banned recently, so the vicar preaches some kind of nonsense over the public address system, then sends her minions around the village with the collection box so that the people can donate money which they don't have to the glorification of the church.
If according to Christian doctrine it's me, Mister Atheist, who is the fool, then I'd rather be a fool.

@divegeester said
I have neither highlighted any contradictions in the bible, nor have I used the word “ungodly”, so there is no need for you to type it inside quotation marks and infer that I’ve even suggested it.

I wrote 'ungodly' for emphasis.

It is you who put "ungodly" in quotation marks. (See the difference? )

And your previous post very much exposed the contradictory nature of the bible and a distinctly 'ungodly' God whether you realized it or not. - Why would an omniscient and omnibenevolent God require animal sacrifices? Isn't this far more likely to be the ramblings of ancient humans wrapped up in paganistic practices?

@indonesia-phil said
I reckon I live a fairly 'good' life; I love and respect all living things, I step over ants, that kind of thing. I never deliberately do harm to or harbour ill - will toward anybody, and help quite a few people in the small Indonesian village in which I live. We've been buying sacks of rice for the villagers throughout the pandemic so that nobody goes hungry, we spons ...[text shortened]... according to Christian doctrine it's me, Mister Atheist, who is the fool, then I'd rather be a fool.

Lol, you are a comedian. Did you read what I wrote? Why are you arguing with yourself?