Meat Eating

@rajk999 said
First, the bible called you are fool. The answer to your question comes in the very next verse

[i]Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, [b]Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least o ...[text shortened]... and adulterers and sinners of all types. Jesus forgives, and man should repent and live righteously.

Righto, one is encouraged by this, although posts subsequent to yours show that even you Christians can't agree about it, and you've been called a fool too, so you can't win, eh?
I'm about done with this, I hope, but your mention of brotherly love prompts me to take you up again on your somewhat Draconian attitude to homosexuality. You know what sexuality is, right? I'm heterosexual and blue eyed, and I could no more become homosexual/bisexual than I could wake up one day with brown eyes. What we are is in us, genetically hard - wired since before we were born, whether we be asexual, heterosexual, homosexual or all stations in between, we don't choose what we are, and to condemn anyone for being anything is dark - ages thinking, and one would like to think that we are becoming more enlightened.
Gay, straight, bi, it's all a manifestation of our humanity, men loving men and women loving women has as much depth and validity as any other kind of love, it isn't an abomination, it's the way we are, and there are more important things to think or worry about than who loves who, don't you think? Why not get your head out of your biblical scriptures for a minute and think for yourself? Why not let everyone live their sexual and romantic lives without condemnation, learn to love and respect everyone, it's a happier state to be in, and I'm guessing that it's what your god would want you to do, if he's worth the worshiping.

@indonesia-phil said
Righto, one is encouraged by this, although posts subsequent to yours show that even you Christians can't agree about it, and you've been called a fool too, so you can't win, eh?
I'm about done with this, I hope, but your mention of brotherly love prompts me to take you up again on your somewhat Draconian attitude to homosexuality. You know what sexuality is, right? I ...[text shortened]... be in, and I'm guessing that it's what your god would want you to do, if he's worth the worshiping.

First, there is no requirement, neither is it a virtue for Christians to all agree. In the days of Christ and the Apostles there were always those who contradicted the true teachings of Christ and it has not gotten any better. What is important is doing what Jesus requires, and from what you have said it appears that you are on the right track.

Regarding homosexuality - I think you are confusing brotherly love [charitable love] with romantic love. Jesus is interested in people showing charitable love to their fellow men. The examples of how this manifests itself are all in the Matt 25 passage, as well as in the Sermon on the Mount [Matt 5, 6 and 7]. An example of a draconian attitude to gays would be what still exists in some countries ie execution. I do not support that.

Personally I do not discriminate against gays if and when I do come across them. They are treated with the same courtesy like anyone else. However that does not, and should not stop me from identifying [if it becomes necessary], that it is a sin according to God. I have be in the position where a fat, gluttonous person was trying to tell me that nothing is wrong with being a glutton. Unfortunately for them that is also a sin according to God. Some people take the sin of lying rather lightly. Again this is not the case in the bible. Lying is one of the more serious sins according to God. I would put the sin of lying at the top of the list based on what I have seen in the bible.

In the end, the bad news is that we are all sinners, some more than others. The good news is that we are all given a conscience which tells us right from wrong. God has appointed Jesus to judge and the passage I quoted tells how this will go down. I think that there are many sinners [gays included], who unknowingly pick up Jesus, and look after him.

@rajk999 said
Personally I do not discriminate against gays if and when I do come across them. They are treated with the same courtesy like anyone else. However that does not, and should not stop me from identifying [if it becomes necessary], that it is a sin according to God.
In the end, the bad news is that we are all sinners, some more than others.

You should qualify this statement.
Homosexuality is a sin according to your god and therefore only
a sin if you practise it.

There are many Christians who believe homosexuality is not a sin according
to their god and therefore the practice of it is not sinful to them.

It would be silly to objectively judge someone by a religion other than
their own. (I'm assuming you don't adhere to Islam for instance?)

@rajk999 said
First, there is no requirement, neither is it a virtue for Christians to all agree. In the days of Christ and the Apostles there were always those who contradicted the true teachings of Christ and it has not gotten any better. What is important is doing what Jesus requires, and from what you have said it appears that you are on the right track.

Regarding homosexuality - I ...[text shortened]... ink that there are many sinners [gays included], who unknowingly pick up Jesus, and look after him.

But you do discriminate against gays. This may not manifest itself in the way you behave toward them, but your ingrained and learned prejudice means that you 'automatically' see them as sinful, which is an extreme form of discrimination.

And as for your three sins of gluttony, lying and homosexuality, surely you can see the essential difference between these? Gluttony is a choice, as is lying, we can stop being gluttonous and we can stop lying, we cannot, however decide upon our sexuality. Can you not see that distinction?

I ask you once again to stop living your life through your bible and engage your own thoughts for a moment. I'm not interested in biblical quotes, since the bible is so full of contradiction that it hardly qualifies as a reference or guide for anything, unless as you admit yourself you 'cherry pick' the parts that suit you, which makes a complete nonsense of the whole thing.

@indonesia-phil said
But you do discriminate against gays. This may not manifest itself in the way you behave toward them, but your ingrained and learned prejudice means that you 'automatically' see them as sinful, which is an extreme form of discrimination.

And as for your three sins of gluttony, lying and homosexuality, surely you can see the essential difference between these? Glutt ...[text shortened]... rself you 'cherry pick' the parts that suit you, which makes a complete nonsense of the whole thing.

Para 1 - Wrong. You may have missed the part where I said ALL of mankind is sinful. Are you saying that I discriminate against everyone? Makes no sense.

Para 2 - Gluttony is not necessarily a choice. Im sure there is DNA evidence that some people just cannot help themselves and stuff all day. Same with lying. Im pretty sure I read somewhere that kleptomania is also determined by someones genes. But they are all sins according to God. What about adultery and fornication. Do you not think that the desire to have sex and procreate is written in everyones DNA? OF course it is. But they are all sins.

Para 3 - I live my life through Jesus Christ. Not changing that now. My own thoughts are influenced b the teachings of Christ. Thanks for your suggestion.

@rajk999 said
Para 1 - Wrong. You may have missed the part where I said ALL of mankind is sinful. Are you saying that I discriminate against everyone? Makes no sense.

Para 2 - Gluttony is not necessarily a choice. Im sure there is DNA evidence that some people just cannot help themselves and stuff all day. Same with lying. Im pretty sure I read somewhere that kleptomania is also determ ...[text shortened]... ing that now. My own thoughts are influenced b the teachings of Christ. Thanks for your suggestion.

Okay, so even the most natural and fulfilling human desires, without which we would none of us be here, are a sin. They aren't actually, aside from according to your weird and guilt - ridden doctrine, but there's no getting through to you, is there? Your head's in a vice and you can't see it. Have a good life.

@indonesia-phil said
Okay, so even the most natural and fulfilling human desires, without which we would none of us be here, are a sin. They aren't actually, aside from according to your weird and guilt - ridden doctrine, but there's no getting through to you, is there? Your head's in a vice and you can't see it. Have a good life.

For some people, ..the most natural and fulfilling human desires, without which we would none of us be here,.. is having sex with a minor. There is DNA evidence that this desire is hardwired in their genes, ie they cannot help it, its not their fault. But the law [for now] calls this pedophilia, and God [for all eternity] calls it a sin. So it is only a matter of time before some sicko group clamor for pedophilia rights and want child marriages legalised etc etc. So excuse me for staying away from your / society's twisted moral standards. Have good life yourself.

@rajk999 said
For some people, ..the most natural and fulfilling human desires, without which we would none of us be here,.. is having sex with a minor. There is DNA evidence that this desire is hardwired in their genes, ie they cannot help it, its not their fault. But the law [for now] calls this pedophilia, and God [for all eternity] calls it a sin. So it is only a matter of tim ...[text shortened]... o excuse me for staying away from your / society's twisted moral standards. Have good life yourself.

It is 'society' which outlaws child sex, so where into this do you read 'twisted moral standards'? And by the way, my moral standards don't condone child sex either. You have a very strange view of the world.

@indonesia-phil said
It is 'society' which outlaws child sex, so where into this do you read 'twisted moral standards'? And by the way, my moral standards don't condone child sex either. You have a very strange view of the world.

Indonesia is one of the worlds most prolific sex-tourism destinations, and this includes sex with children. It may be outlawed, but the authorities turn a blind eye to it and it is accepted as one of your society's norms. Dont pretend you do not know that. The only thing that is strange about me and my view is that I am not one to go along with what others say and do. You seem to do that.

@rajk999 said
Indonesia is one of the worlds most prolific sex-tourism destinations, and this includes sex with children. It may be outlawed, but the authorities turn a blind eye to it and it is accepted as one of your society's norms. Dont pretend you do not know that. The only thing that is strange about me and my view is that I am not one to go along with what others say and do. You seem to do that.

What are you talking about? Have you ever been to Indonesia? I've lived here 18 years and have travelled extensively, and can tell you by first - hand experience that you are talking ill - informed nonsense. In any case what has your specific accusation to do with what we are talking about? I'm not denying for a moment that there are bad people in the world, Indonesia included, that is why we have to have laws to control them, but it isn't most people. Most people are not sinners, as your perverted Christian doctrine would have it, and I for one am glad that most people don't think as you do, the world would be a sadder and nastier place if they did.

@indonesia-phil said
What are you talking about? Have you ever been to Indonesia? I've lived here 18 years and have travelled extensively, and can tell you by first - hand experience that you are talking ill - informed nonsense. In any case what has your specific accusation to do with what we are talking about? I'm not denying for a moment that there are bad people in the world, Indonesia ...[text shortened]... d that most people don't think as you do, the world would be a sadder and nastier place if they did.

Do you need to go to the moon to know whats going on there? Here is some information on the top 10 sex tourism destinations. Indonesia is #4. Apparently the closer you are to home the less aware you are of your surroundings.

https://www.therichest.com/most-popular/10-of-the-most-popular-destinations-for-sex-tourism/

Indonesia is another country that has a problem with CHILD sex trafficking. Sex tourism exploits and furthers this problem, despite the fact that prostitution is legally considered a ‘crime against decency and morality.’ Although prostitution is illegal, Indonesia remains a popular site for sex tourism. Sex workers can be found in traditional brothels, but one thing that sets the sex tourism industry in Indonesia apart is the popularity of online sex forums and prostitution rings that exist through social media. The availability of sex workers via the internet allows for ratings and facilitates the process of finding a prostitute. It seems like Indonesia’s sex tourism is highly efficient.

Also if you believe the words of Jesus are perverted and those who preach His teachings are sad and nasty, I think this is Jesus's reply to you... dont say you did not know

And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city. (Mark 6:11 KJV)

@rajk999 said
Do you need to go to the moon to know whats going on there? Here is some information on the top 10 sex tourism destinations. Indonesia is #4. Apparently the closer you are to home the less aware you are of your surroundings.

https://www.therichest.com/most-popular/10-of-the-most-popular-destinations-for-sex-tourism/

[b]Indonesia is another country that has a pro ...[text shortened]... ore tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city. (Mark 6:11 KJV)

Yes, well you may or may not have heard the expression 'lies, damned lies and statistics', but that aside, I repeat, what has this specific point regarding one country to do with our discussion on human morality? You employ the typical Christian tactic of diversion when you are unable to defend your beliefs against their blatant contradictions, and your apparent inability to see the difference between gluttony, lying and sexuality speaks volumes, either of your ignorance or your honestly.

As I mentioned before, by your own admission you 'cherry pick' the bits of the teachings of Jesus to fit your own world view, which in itself is intellectually indefensible, so you don't defend it, you change the subject.

And more quotes from the bible? Please, don't bother.

@indonesia-phil said
Yes, well you may or may not have heard the expression 'lies, damned lies and statistics', but that aside, I repeat, what has this specific point regarding one country to do with our discussion on human morality? You employ the typical Christian tactic of diversion when you are unable to defend your beliefs against their blatant contradictions, and your apparent inabil ...[text shortened]... u don't defend it, you change the subject.

And more quotes from the bible? Please, don't bother.

Wrong about me trying diversion tactics. Your point about justifying homosexuality is that it is in the nature of the person to be that way, and they cannot be any thing else. I then pointed out that it is also in the nature of certain people to be gluttonous, to be liars, to steal, to be adulterers and fornicators, to be child molesters. Scientific research into these qualities of human nature show clearly that their DNA makeup has hardwired certain undesirable qualities into their genetic structure. In other words they cannot help be who they are, just like homosexuals. That does not cancel Gods laws that these are all sins. Nobody is asking you to accept Gods laws. People are free to live their lives as they please. Be gay, go steal, go lie and fornicate with whoever ... there is a price to pay in the end..

By the way good qualities are also part of the genetic makeup of people. You for example seem to be the type that will feel very uncomfortable if there is a poor neighbour whose family has to go hungry while you have food to spare. You will help him.

All people do good and evil. God will judge. This conversation is over now.

@indonesia-phil said
It is 'society' which outlaws child sex, so where into this do you read 'twisted moral standards'? And by the way, my moral standards don't condone child sex either. You have a very strange view of the world.

Didn't you know? All homosexuals are pedophiles. This is what the Christian right wants you to believe. They already know you don't condone pedophilia, so they are trying to shoehorn homosexuality into this so that you reject it, too.

@suzianne said
All homosexuals are pedophiles. This is what the Christian right wants you to believe.

I don't think all people on the Christian right want you to believe that all homosexuals are paedophiles. Some do, no doubt. But there are people on the Christian right who understand the concept of informed consent, just like their counterparts on the left do.

What I think all people on the Christian right DO agree on is that both practising homosexuals and paedophiles are committing "sin" ~ transgressing God's will ~ according to their Christian beliefs.