Let the dead bury their own dead

Originally posted by divegeester
Interesting; you've ver really thought about it and yet you still thought it relevant to use to support your argument here?

My argument was not dependent on understanding what the term 'gate' meant. It was actually used to demonstrate that relatively few people would respond to proclaiming Gods Kingdom in response to a point made by Deep Thought. How you could possibly have failed to grasp this I really have no idea. Is this another instance of your inability to think rationally?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
On the contrary Jesus clearly states that the Kingdom message would be proclaimed worldwide,

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.

Its ...[text shortened]... epeat my original premise that unless you are proclaiming Gods Kingdom you are spiritually dead.

You are aguing with yourself ... Of course the Kingdom message is to be proclaimed worldwide .. who is arguing that?

The passage you quoted was referring to a group of disciples who were sent out to the house of Israel.

Originally posted by Rajk999
You are aguing with yourself ... Of course the Kingdom message is to be proclaimed worldwide .. who is arguing that?

The passage you quoted was referring to a group of disciples who were sent out to the house of Israel.

yes but as we have seen it extends to all Christians and I therefore repeat the claim that unless you are proclaiming the Kingdom of God you are spiritually dead and I challenge any Christian here to refute my assertion.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes but as we have seen it extends to all Christians and I therefore repeat the claim that unless you are proclaiming the Kingdom of God you are spiritually dead and I challenge any Christian here to refute my assertion.

Are you claiming to know who is proclaiming the Kingdom of God and who is not?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
My argument was not dependent on understanding what the term 'gate' meant. It was actually used to demonstrate that relatively few people would respond to proclaiming Gods Kingdom in response to a point made by Deep Thought. How you could possibly have failed to grasp this I really have no idea. Is this another instance of your inability to think rationally?

But the scripture refers to the salvation of the "few" who find the "gate", not to an unspecified group of those who proclaim the kingdom. You are using the scripture incorrectly.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes but as we have seen it extends to all Christians and I therefore repeat the claim that unless you are proclaiming the Kingdom of God you are spiritually dead and I challenge any Christian here to refute my assertion.

I refute it. on these basis:

1) There is no indication in the scripture in your OP that the man he was talking to was a Christian. Furthermore, he said let the dead bury their but YOU (the man) go proclaim the Kingdom. So Jesus was not referring to the man as dead but some other group of non believers.

2) Paul himself is documented as having spent considerable time tent making between preaching commissions. Was he spiritually dead during this time?

3) Many of those Jesus healed and wanted to follow him, he told to return to their families and tell of their healing. Furthermore they were not commissioned the way the 12 disciples were.

4) You are attempting to draw a boarder of exclusivity around proclamations of the kingdom by erroneously using the Gate and Way scripture. You are using it in an attempt to show that only a few will be proclaiming the kingdom, when in fact the Gate is Christ (which you admit you did not know and had not thought about) and the way is salvation. I.E. few will find Christ, not a few will be proclaiming the kingdom.

I have already called you out on page one regarding on your intent with this thread. We all know where you are trying to go with this. If you were less arrogant and perhaps had given more thought to scriptures before you tried to use them to support your own propaganda, then you wouldn't get into pickles like this.

Originally posted by divegeester
But the scripture refers to the salvation of the "few" who find the "gate", not to an unspecified group of those who proclaim the kingdom. You are using the scripture incorrectly.

I have explained its use, why it was used, to whom and the point of its use, if you need help understanding any of these let me know and I'll be happy to explain why it was used. Your stupid attempts to make up false values and make arguments on the basis of those false values is tedious and boring.

Originally posted by divegeester
I refute it. on these basis:

1) There is no indication in the scripture in your OP that the man he was talking to was a Christian. Furthermore, he said let the dead bury their but YOU (the man) go proclaim the Kingdom. So Jesus was not referring to the man as dead but some other group of non believers.

2) Paul himself is documented as having spent ...[text shortened]... tried to use them to support your own propaganda, then you wouldn't get into pickles like this.

1. RajK has pointed out the admonition was given to the disciples of Christ.

2. Paul was a tenet maker by trade with the sole intent that he could provide for a ministry and be self sufficient, not only that there is nothing to suggest that he was not proclaiming Gods Kingdom to co workers. Your suggestion that he was no longer a Kingdom proclaimer because he engaged in tentmaking is ludicrous and demonstrably false, Paul proclaimed the Kingdom in whatever circumstance he found himself.

3. It has already been pointed out with scriptural reference why proclaiming Gods Kingdom was not limited to the 12 disciples, or the seventy. Paul reminded all Christians that they should be teachers. your attempt to make something of the fact that Jesus told people to return to their families is clutching at straws.

4. There is no other way to read Jesus words, either you proclaim Gods Kingdom or you are spiritually dead. I suspect that you don't like it because it pangs your conscience because you are not a proclaimer of Gods Kingdom and remain spiritually dead as a consequence, after all did not Jesus himself say, he that does not gather scatters?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
1. RajK has pointed out the admonition was given to the disciples of Christ.

2. Paul was a tenet maker by trade with the sole intent that he could provide for a ministry and be self sufficient, not only that there is nothing to suggest that he was not proclaiming Gods Kingdom to co workers. Your suggestion that he was no longer a Kingdom proclaime ...[text shortened]... ly dead as a consequence, after all did not Jesus himself say, he that does not gather scatters?

Do you believe that your posting on this Spirituality Forum is a part of your "proclaiming Gods Kingdom"?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I have explained its use, why it was used, to whom and the point of its use, if you need help understanding any of these let me know and I'll be happy to explain why it was used. Your stupid attempts to make up false values and make arguments on the basis of those false values is tedious and boring.

But your use of the Gate and Way scripture is incorrect; calling me "stupid" does not make it correct. You admitted when I asked you what the "Gate" was, that you didn't know and had not thought about it much. Now you have learned something.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
1. RajK has pointed out the admonition was given to the disciples of Christ.

2. Paul was a tenet maker by trade with the sole intent that he could provide for a ministry and be self sufficient, not only that there is nothing to suggest that he was not proclaiming Gods Kingdom to co workers. Your suggestion that he was no longer a Kingdom proclaime ...[text shortened]... ly dead as a consequence, after all did not Jesus himself say, he that does not gather scatters?

Your points 1 and 3 contradict point 2.

As for point 4, Proper Knob has already called you out for simply not trying.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
1. RajK has pointed out the admonition was given to the disciples of Christ.

2. Paul was a tenet maker by trade with the sole intent that he could provide for a ministry and be self sufficient, not only that there is nothing to suggest that he was not proclaiming Gods Kingdom to co workers. Your suggestion that he was no longer a Kingdom proclaime ...[text shortened]... ly dead as a consequence, after all did not Jesus himself say, he that does not gather scatters?

2. Paul was a tenet maker by trade ...

A TENT maker ?

I agree with your point #2. Paul proclaimed the kingdom of God - and it was in conjuction with his proclamation of the Gospel of the grace of God.

Compare Acts 20:24,25

"But I consider my life of no account as if precious to myself, in order that I might finish my course and the ministry which I have received from the Lord Jesus to solemnly testify of the gospel of the grace of God. (v.24)

And now, behold that you all among whom I have gone about proclaiming the kingdom, will see my face no more." (v.25)

Originally posted by sonship

2. Paul was a tenet maker by trade ...

A TENT maker ?

I agree with your point #2. Paul proclaimed the kingdom of God - and it was in conjuction with his proclamation of the Gospel of the grace of God.

Compare [b]Acts 20:24,25

"But I consider my life of no account as if precious to myself, in order that I might ...[text shortened]... whom I have gone about proclaiming the kingdom, [/b] will see my face no more." (v.25)

[/b]

Yes, however the ludicrous suggestion was that Paul while engaging in the business of a tent maker was no longer a Kingdom proclaimer when infact he tells us himself that he proclaimed Gods kingdom in the marketplace and to whoever was on hand.

So he reasoned in the synagogue with both Jews and God-fearing Greeks, as well as in the marketplace day by day with those who happened to be there.

And he found a Jew named Aquila, a native of Pontus, having recently come from Italy with his wife Priscilla, because Claudius had commanded all the Jews to leave Rome. He came to them, and because he was of the same trade, he stayed with them and they were working, for by trade they were tent-makers. And he was reasoning in the synagogue every Sabbath and trying to persuade Jews and Greeks.…

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes but as we have seen it extends to all Christians and I therefore repeat the claim that unless you are proclaiming the Kingdom of God you are spiritually dead and I challenge any Christian here to refute my assertion.

Your statement demonstrates a kind of shallow narrowmindedness similar to the once saved always saved people. You focus on one little statement in the Bible and make mincemeat out of it, ignoring the rest of the teachings of Christ.

There is whole long list of qualities and attributes which Christ will use to decide who is spiritually alive or dead... preaching of the Kingdom of God is just one of them.

In Matt 25, Christ gave a list of people who he called sheep that will be called into his kingdom and listed the kind of things these people did. NOT ONCE, NOT ONE SINGLE TIME was it mentioned that these people preached the kindgom of God. Instead these called into the Kingdom did the following:
- they fed the hungry
- gave drink to the thirsty
- took in the stranger
- clothe the naked
- visited the sick
etc etc .. did charitable good works.

These are spiritually alive people. According to Christ the goats that did NOT these things are spiritually dead.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Your statement demonstrates a kind of shallow narrowmindedness similar to the once saved always saved people. You focus on one little statement in the Bible and make mincemeat out of it, ignoring the rest of the teachings of Christ.

There is whole long list of qualities and attributes which Christ will use to decide who is spiritually alive or dead... pre ...[text shortened]... ally alive people. According to Christ the goats that did NOT these things are spiritually dead.

So we are agreed. Unless you are proclaiming the Kingdom of God you are spiritually dead. Thankyou.