John 14:6

Originally posted by @fmf
Who's to say you're not? Can someone see John 14:6 differently from you and still be a follower of Jesus?

I keep asking sonship, maybe 50 times now, if I can believe differently to him about the trinity (reject it as a doctrine) and still be saved and he refuses to answer.

Originally posted by @kellyjay
No, I believe you are adding to the text by suggesting it means something other than what is says.

You have typed out literally hundreds of ideological words on the last few thread pages and are seeking to add them to the text and arriving at something other than what some other followers of Christ think it says. You have added hundreds and hundreds of words.

Originally posted by @kellyjay
I'm taking the words and subject matter for that text to mean only what it says nothing more and that other "interpretations" that add to that text are dangerous regardless if they are followers or not.

You can't be serious. You are heaping piles and piles of ideology onto the simple words.

John 14:6: “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me." Or...

"Being the kind of person I [Jesus] want you to be is truly the way I want you to live your life and through this you will be rewarded with eternal life, by which I mean come to God, if you live your life in accordance with my commands."

See? No piles and piles of ideology heaped onto the simple words.

Can a person who lives his life by the italicized text above be counted as a follower of Jesus?

Originally posted by @fmf
You have typed out literally hundreds of ideological words on the last few thread pages and are seeking to add them to the text and arriving at something other than what some other followers of Christ think it says. You have added hundreds and hundreds of words.

Recently sonship admitted that when he was first a Christian he didn’t find the bible to be entirely reliable, but went on to say that as he grew in faith he did. Words to that effect. I questioned him on it and he ferociously backed away and refused to engage on the matter again.

This topic of the completeneess, accuracy and interpretation of biblical scripture seems to be a bit of an eggshell mindset for some Christians, in that one crack and the whole lot crumbles. The virtual panic at times, the deflection and obfuscation in order to maintain a facade of openness over a core of dogmatic rigidity is interesting in itself.

FMF: Can someone see John 14:6 differently from you and still be a follower of Jesus?

Originally posted by @kellyjay
I hope so.

You hope so? What interpretation that's quite different from yours do you hope means that that person is also a follower of Jesus?

Originally posted by @fmf
You hope so? What interpretation that's quite different from yours do you hope means that that person is also a follower of Jesus?

You might misinterpret that text but still be right with God through Jesus Christ, meaning
actually do what it says, just get that text wrong. Nothing in scripture says agree with
KellyJay or go to Hell. It does say that we need Jesus, not me.

Originally posted by @kellyjay
You might misinterpret that text but still be right with God through Jesus Christ, meaning
actually do what it says, just get that text wrong. Nothing in scripture says agree with
KellyJay or go to Hell. It does say that we need Jesus, not me.

What about the example I gave (which you have blanked out thus far)? Can one take that far simpler interpretation of John 14:6 - rather than the walls of ideological words approach you take - and be a follower of Jesus every bit as much as you are?

Originally posted by @kellyjay
You might misinterpret that text but still be right with God through Jesus Christ, meaning
actually do what it says, just get that text wrong. Nothing in scripture says agree with
KellyJay or go to Hell. It does say that we need Jesus, not me.

In your opinion, if I reject the doctrine of the trinity (but still believe in and accept Christ) will I be excluded from salvation?

Yes, or no?

Originally posted by @fmf
What about the example I gave (which you have blanked out thus far)? Can one take that far simpler interpretation of John 14:6 - rather than the walls of ideological words approach you take - and be a follower of Jesus every bit as much as you are?

Didn't we just discuss this? It is Jesus Christ, not KellyJay that matters here, Jesus is the
Way, Truth, Life not me. If you are right with God through Christ everything else will work
its way out. The bottom line is what you are putting your faith into, we are saved by God's
grace, through faith it isn't by our works, it is all about Him for HIs glory not our own.

Originally posted by @divegeester
In your opinion, if I reject the doctrine of the trinity (but still believe in and accept Christ) will I be excluded from salvation?

Yes, or no?

I know I'm going to be banging my head against a wall for this.
NO, Not required in my opinion, being right with God is through Jesus Christ. The
trinity which I do believe in is accurate, but if you are right with God through Jesus
Christ the rest will work itself out.

Originally posted by @kellyjay
I know I'm going to be banging my head against a wall for this.
NO, Not required in my opinion, being right with God is through Jesus Christ. The trinity which I do believe in is accurate, but if you are right with God through Jesus Christ the rest will work itself out.

Thank you for that straightforward and honest reply.

It is very odd that sonship finds it impossible to do the same thing; I presume it is because he believes it is not possible to be saved and reject the trinity which of course is not supportable in scripture. As you will have seen me say to him, it is his vanity which causes him to be unprincipled over the matter.

Now, I’m not inviting you to comment on sonship, but this is a classic example of where dogmatic rigidity can become a real turn off in debate.

Originally posted by @divegeester
Thank you for that straightforward and honest reply.

It is very odd that sonship finds it impossible to do the same thing; I presume it is because he believes it is not possible to be saved and reject the trinity which of course is not supportable in scripture. As you will have seen me say to him, it is his vanity which causes him to be unprincipled ...[text shortened]... , but this is a classic example of where dogmatic rigidity can become a real turn off in debate.

Here is hoping we both show the other grace in other conversations, we have shown each
other things that don't help.

Originally posted by @kellyjay
Didn't we just discuss this? It is Jesus Christ, not KellyJay that matters here, Jesus is the
Way, Truth, Life not me. If you are right with God through Christ everything else will work
its way out. The bottom line is what you are putting your faith into, we are saved by God's
grace, through faith it isn't by our works, it is all about Him for HIs glory not our own.

What definition of which word or words in John 14:6 leads you to believe that it is not about obedience?

Originally posted by @fmf
What definition of which word or words in John 14:6 leads you to believe that it is not about obedience?

It isn't the word or words in John 14:6, it is the word that is not there, "obedience", adding
that to the text is changing the meaning of the text as is.

Originally posted by @kellyjay
It isn't the word or words in John 14:6, it is the word that is not there, "obedience", adding
that to the text is changing the meaning of the text as is.

Interpreting "the way" to mean "through obedience" is adding something that is not there? OK, but you have typed out hundreds and hundreds of words that are not there and foisted them onto John 14:6. Who's to say that my interpretation is "changing the meaning of the text as is" while your interpretation is not "changing the meaning of the text as is"?