But its not the way the churches preach it. You need more than just a proclamation of faith.
Apostle Peter advises this method:
And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. (2 Peter 1:5-11 KJV)
Faith is not enough. Rather faith is just a stepping stone into the life Christians are required to live. That life must include :
- virtue
- knowledge
- temperance
- patience
- godliness
- brotherly kindness
- charity
The point is clear, that if you want to be sure of your eternal life then your life MUST include the above attributes. If you lack these qualities then you are blind your calling and election into Gods Kingdom is unsure.
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21 Apr 14
Originally posted by Rajk999Do you have these qualities?
But its not the way the churches preach it. You need more than just a proclamation of faith.
Apostle Peter advises this method:
[i]And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith [b]virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godline ...[text shortened]... u lack these qualities then you are blind your calling and election into Gods Kingdom is unsure.[/b]
21 Apr 14
Originally posted by divegeesterHere come the [rather useless] personal questions.
Do you have these qualities?
Do the facts and truth stated by Christ and the Apostles need to be watered down because some people might be lacking in the qualities required by God? The teachings of the Bible requires the believer to display these qualities. Each believer will be judged on their own merit, some will have all these qualities some might have some and some, none. Christ will judge accordingly.
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21 Apr 14
Originally posted by Rajk999I'll take that as a no then.
Here come the [rather useless] personal questions.
Do the facts and truth stated by Christ and the Apostles need to be watered down because some people might be lacking in the qualities required by God? The teachings of the Bible requires the believer to display these qualities. Each believer will be judged on their own merit, some will have all these qualities some might have some and some, none. Christ will judge accordingly.
21 Apr 14
Originally posted by divegeesterI think I get where youall that persist in asking these personal questions, which will remain unanswered, are coming from. In your churches the preachers are not allowed to preach anything [even though it might be sound scripturally], which the preacher himself is unable to achieve .. eg if the preacher is an adulterer he cannot say that adultery is a sin .. I get it. You have been indoctrinated to believe that.
Do you have these qualities?
21 Apr 14
Originally posted by Rajk999I would guess that if the presenter or author of a biblical theory did not personally support said theory in his/her actions/beliefs, then I would imagine that that small fact might shed a rather huge doubt on the theory itself.
What does that matter? Does my lack of these qualities strengthen your case for 'once saved always saved'?
21 Apr 14
Originally posted by Rajk999Well, then maybe you could make it clear that you're giving us a warning based on experience. That might be useful.
I think I get where youall that persist in asking these personal questions, which will remain unanswered, are coming from. In your churches the preachers are not allowed to preach anything [even though it might be sound scripturally], which the preacher himself is unable to achieve .. eg if the preacher is an adulterer he cannot say that adultery is a sin .. I get it. You have been indoctrinated to believe that.
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Originally posted by Rajk999Incorrect assumption, at least as it relates to me. I don't engage in your threads protesting against eternal salvation for exactly the reason you state I this one: I.e. because you won't discuss it on a personal level. In Christianity a person's salvation is a personal experience with Christ, not a set of dogmatic principles devoid of life and love and reality. I have already exhausted my views with you on this subject from a scriptural perspective and don't find your repeated posting of your position to be of sufficient interest to me to be honest.
I think I get where youall that persist in asking these personal questions, which will remain unanswered, are coming from. In your churches the preachers are not allowed to preach anything [even though it might be sound scripturally], which the preacher himself is unable to achieve .. eg if the preacher is an adulterer he cannot say that adultery is a sin .. I get it. You have been indoctrinated to believe that.
In order to explore your premise that a person can lose their salvation I suggest you need to share some examples of personal out-working of this doctrine, for instance:
- How do you come to hold this view?
- do you attend a church which shares this doctrine wholly? Which one?
- how do you manage to attain and maintain the high standards your OP propounds?
- at what point can you be certain that you are operating at a sufficient level of works to ensure salvation?
- what happens if you slip?
- have you ever lost your salvation?
- how did you regain it?
- how does Christ's finished redemptive work get applied to your life and works?
Etc.
22 Apr 14
2 edits
Originally posted by Rajk999Here come the [rather useless] personal questions.
Here come the [rather useless] personal questions.
Do the facts and truth stated by Christ and the Apostles need to be watered down because some people might be lacking in the qualities required by God? The teachings of the Bible requires the believer to display these qualities. Each believer will be judged on their own merit, some will have all these qualities some might have some and some, none. Christ will judge accordingly.
Its rather typical, predictable and quite banal
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22 Apr 14
Originally posted by RJHindsEvery poster's credibility in this forum is assessed on what they post, you of all people should be painfully aware of that fact.
It appears he wants to use the information from those personal questions to make a judgement on the persons credibility.
Here I am explaining that I bear little motivation to engage in the back and forth of scripture relating to Rajk999's opinion on the subject; what I am interested in is the practical out-working of his doctrines in his life. Rajk999 is under no compunction to discuss this, but I felt obliged to respond to his post after my first question on page one and explain why I had asked.