07 Aug 10
Originally posted by whodeyO.K., but I was asking about your referring to yourself as 'Whodey' instead of the more common, less grandiose 'I' or 'me'. What's that about?
You tell me Boss.
We have TOO telling me that I am a hypocrite for saying that religious leaders in a church should step down if they themselves openly sin and then become hypocrites themselves and without repentence. However, as we see in the example of Christ this is exactly what should be done as he only attacked the religious leaders of his day who were hypocrites.
09 Aug 10
Originally posted by whodeyYou give yourself much too little credit. You keep earning your labels of hypocrite and liar purely on your own merit as I've repeatedly pointed out your hypocrisy and lies in detail as you present them.
You hurl stones at Christians in general. You post thrread after thread regarding Christianity as if it were the scourge of the world. You rail against all Christians on this site caling them hypocrites and homophobes. Perhaps the only Christians you could embrace are those who embrace homosesulality, but then, I have never once heard you say a kind word a ...[text shortened]... us leaders accountable to the gospel of one Jesus Christ Whodey then becomes a lying hypocrite?
You rail against all Christians on this site caling them hypocrites and homophobes.
Your attempt to characterize it as something I call "ALL Christians" is also dishonest. Also, I rarely use the term "homophobe" though I do use "bigot" where appropriate.
In fact, there are Christians on this site who do not believe homosexuality is a sin yet you continue your attacks against them based upon their claims of Jesus Chrsit being the Son of God who has come to save us all with which you disagree.
Yet another mischaracterization. What I "attack" is "cheap salvation". The absolute minimum requirement for "eternal life" / "heaven" / "salvation" according to the teachings of Jesus: One must become righteous, i.e., one must become one with God, one must follow the will of God, one cannot continue to commit sin, etc.
However, if Whodey does the same and tries to hold the same religious leaders accountable to the gospel of one Jesus Christ Whodey then becomes a lying hypocrite?
What makes YOU a hypocrite and liar are YOUR hypocrisy and lies as I keep showing.
What part of the following don't you understand?:
Once again, what makes you a hypocrite is that allow yourself and others to remain members/leaders in your church despite the fact that you and they continue to sin, yet choose to ostracize homosexuals from your church for their "sins".
Whodey is a hypocrite and liar because of HIS hypocrisy and lies.
09 Aug 10
2 edits
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneTo be a hypocrite, one must profess something and then do another. So tell me, what were the religious leaders doing that was hypocritical in the time of Jesus?
You give yourself much too little credit. You keep earning your labels of hypocrite and liar purely on your own merit as I've repeatedly pointed out your hypocrisy and lies in detail as you present them.
[b] You rail against all Christians on this site caling them hypocrites and homophobes.
Your attempt to characterize it as something I call "A /quote]
Whodey is a hypocrite and liar because of HIS hypocrisy and lies.[/b]
As for myself, there are certain sins that religious leaders call sin such as adultery or fornication etc. So if they do these things and preach against them they would be hypocrites and should be called out. If they then persist openly they should step down from their leadership position in church. If not, why not? Do we allow hypocrites to remain in positions of authority like they did in the time of Christ?
Assuming you are right and I am a hypocrite, should I be allowed to assume a leadership position in the church?
10 Aug 10
1 edit
Originally posted by whodeyOnce again, What part of the following don't you understand?:
To be a hypocrite, one must profess something and then do another. So tell me, what were the religious leaders doing that was hypocritical in the time of Jesus?
As for myself, there are certain sins that religious leaders call sin such as adultery or fornication etc. So if they do these things and preach against them they would be hypocrites and should b ...[text shortened]... e right and I am a hypocrite, should I be allowed to assume a leadership position in the church?
Once again, what makes you a hypocrite is that allow yourself and others to remain members/leaders in your church despite the fact that you and they continue to sin, yet choose to ostracize homosexuals from your church for their "sins".
YOU continue to sin, yet support the ostracization of others for continuing to sin. This is hypocrisy plain and simple. I really hope this sinks in because I don't know if I can "dumb it down" anymore for you.
10 Aug 10
1 edit
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneSo the fact that we are all sinners negates our ability to call others out for hypocrisy in church leadership and to ask them to repent or step down when they openly sin?
Once again, What part of the following don't you understand?:Once again, what makes you a hypocrite is that allow yourself and others to remain members/leaders in your church despite the fact that you and they continue to sin, yet choose to ostracize homosexuals from your church for their "sins".
YOU continue to sin, yet support the os ...[text shortened]... I really hope this sinks in because I don't know if I can "dumb it down" anymore for you.
So tell me, if those in leadership in the church openly live in an adulterous relationship, for example, what should be done about it? Should they be allowed to continue their "lifestyle" and retain their leadership role or should they be forced to either choose following Christ and repent or step down as a chuch leader?
10 Aug 10
Originally posted by whodeySo, does this mean you finally understand your hypocrisy?
So the fact that we are all sinners negates our ability to call others out for hypocrisy in church leadership and to ask them to repent or step down when they openly sin?
So tell me, if those in leadership in the church openly live in an adulterous relationship, for example, what should be done about it? Should they be allowed to continue their "lifestyle ...[text shortened]... ld they be forced to either choose following Christ and repent or step down as a chuch leader?
Also, hypocrisy also applies if you do not support the removal of overweight people for being gluttonous and those who drive high-end cars for being greedy. If anything, they are more "openly sinning" than homosexuals unless said homosexuals are having sex in front of the congregation.
What's more, your focus on "openly sinning" doesn't hold water in light of the following:
Matthew 23
27“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. 28“So you, too, outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness."
If your "leadership" continues to sin, but not "openly", what are they but "whitewashed tombs" that "inwardly are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness"?
Correct me if I'm mistaken, but didn't you once say that in your church ALL members are "leaders"? If so, then remove people from "leadership" effectively removes them from "membership" and your continued attempts to speak in terms of "leadership" is ridiculous.
10 Aug 10
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneSo it would be your opinion that leaders who openly sin and even promote such sinning should be allowed to remain in place?
So, does this mean you finally understand your hypocrisy?
Also, hypocrisy also applies if you do not support the removal of overweight people for being gluttonous and those who drive high-end cars for being greedy. If anything, they are more "openly sinning" than homosexuals unless said homosexuals are having sex in front of the congregation.
What' ...[text shortened]... our continued attempts to speak in terms of "leadership" is ridiculous.
What is clear about the religious leaders of the time of Christ was that they thought they were better than the average Joe. They felt more righteous and prayed to God saying, "Thank you for not making me like these other sinners." They had no compassion for their fellow man and what is worse they felt as if they were better than the lowly sinner.
Having said that, I think this state is a far cry from those who recognize their sin nature and realize that they need God's righteousness just as much as the lowliest sinner. However, to continue in sin willfully against the admonishing of scripture is another thing altogether.
So according to TOO, Whodey is a hypocrite. Have you ever been a hypocrite TOO? If not, congradulations, you are not a hypocrite for calling me out. However, if you have in the past wouldn't that make TOO a hypocrite as well?
11 Aug 10
1 edit
Originally posted by whodeyWhat is clear about the religious leaders of the time of Christ was that they thought they were better than the average Joe. They felt more righteous and prayed to God saying, "Thank you for not making me like these other sinners." They had no compassion for their fellow man and what is worse they felt as if they were better than the lowly sinner.
So it would be your opinion that leaders who openly sin and even promote such sinning should be allowed to remain in place?
What is clear about the religious leaders of the time of Christ was that they thought they were better than the average Joe. They felt more righteous and prayed to God saying, "Thank you for not making me like these other sinners." alling me out. However, if you have in the past wouldn't that make TOO a hypocrite as well?
Evidently the hypocrisy never quits with you. What compassion do you have for YOUR fellow man when you deem it your place to judge them as unfit to be members/leaders in your church? If you did not feel "more righteous" and "better than the lowly sinner", then why do you deem it your place to judge them?
See if you can understand the following. Evidently you didn't understand it at all when I posted it earlier:
Matthew 23
27“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. 28“So you, too, outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness."
You and your brethren are modern day Pharisees. You and your brethren are hypocrites as Jesus points out.
11 Aug 10
2 edits
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneIf I am to follow the example of Christ, I do not go around railing against the average sinner. They are lost, so beating them over the head with a stick seems cruel at best. However, what are we to say of the religious leaders? Christ gave us the example of chastising them for not doing their job which is to shepherd the lost sheep if they are hypocrites. It seems to me that to keep them in their continued positions of leadership seems equally as cruel to the average sinner because where is the average sinner going to find help? Those in authority should recognize that they must submit to the Lordship of Christ and through him overcome sin in their lives even though they may sin as Christ taught. With this attitude they should recognize that all are sinners in the sight of God and their job to reach out to the lost is one of love, not in a spirit of inflated self righteousness in which they care little if at all for those who are lost.
[b]What is clear about the religious leaders of the time of Christ was that they thought they were better than the average Joe. They felt more righteous and prayed to God saying, "Thank you for not making me like these other sinners." They had no compassion for their fellow man and what is worse they felt as if they were better than the lowly sinner.
hren are modern day Pharisees. You and your brethren are hypocrites as Jesus points out.[/b]
I think we can all agree, for example, that the priests who are guilty for molestation should not only step down from their leadership role, they should also be imprisoned. Not doing so has caused a falling away from not only the Catholic church, but from Christiandom all around the globe.
11 Aug 10
Originally posted by whodeyThis is the second time I have seen this in this forum. Is it true? Has anyone really stopped believing in God because they heard about a Catholic priest molesting boys? Or are we talking about the OP of the thread where she still believes in God, but does not want to be associated with the bad behavior of other Christians. Is that what you mean by 'falling away from Christiandom'?
Not doing so has caused a falling away from not only the Catholic church, but from Christiandom all around the globe.
11 Aug 10
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneI sympathise.
[quote] For those who care, and I understand if you don't: [b]Today I quit being a Christian. I'm out. I remain committed to Christ as always but not to being "Christian" or to being part of Christianity. It's simply impossible for me to "belong" to this quarrelsome, hostile, disputatious, and deservedly infamous group. For ten ...years, I've t ...[text shortened]... Anne Rice has had her eyes opened to the hypocrisy that is Christianity.
Comments?[/b]
My general impression is that “Christianity” is sometimes ( not always ) presented as a “package” and an unreasonable package at that. It is presented as a whole messy inconsistent arbitrary set of beliefs as if you have to accept ALL of them no matter how absurd some of them seem or you must reject ALL of them including any that you actually agree with.
I have exactly the same impression with “environmentalism” which is nearly always presented as a totally unreasonable package. For example, I agree that we should strive for sustainability –but why must this be packaged with stupid policies such as to never cut down trees ( thus put an end to sustainable forestry ) etc.? I see parallels here with “Christianity” although this analogy is far from perfect.
11 Aug 10
1 edit
Originally posted by twhiteheadThe fact of the matter is, is that Christianity is waning throughout the industrialized world. Are catholic priests and their scandels to blame? That is a matter of conjecture, however, it certainly cannot help. I can tell you that if I were on the outside looking in, it would probably make me stay on the outside looking in. In addition, if I were one of the poor lads who was molested, God only knows how that would mess me up.
This is the second time I have seen this in this forum. Is it true? Has anyone really stopped believing in God because they heard about a Catholic priest molesting boys? Or are we talking about the OP of the thread where she still believes in God, but does not want to be associated with the bad behavior of other Christians. Is that what you mean by 'falling away from Christiandom'?
Christ once gave a dire warning. He was standing amongst some children and said that to such belongs the kingdom of God. He then added that if one were to "offend" one of these little ones, he would be better off dead. So as the Catholic church plays politics by protecting these offenders, they do so just as the religious leaders of the time of Jesus did the same. Their positions become nothing more than a "career" that they are trying to protect. The people that they proclaim to shepherd mean nothing to them.
11 Aug 10
Originally posted by whodeyWell, there's been several rounds of posts where you've shown your hypocrisy time and again which I've documented above. This latest is no different. From what I can tell it is this type of ongoing HYPOCRISY that has "caused a falling away from not only the Catholic church, but from Christiandom all around the globe."
If I am to follow the example of Christ, I do not go around railing against the average sinner. They are lost, so beating them over the head with a stick seems cruel at best. However, what are we to say of the religious leaders? Christ gave us the example of chastising them for not doing their job which is to shepherd the lost sheep if they are hypocrites. ...[text shortened]... ed a falling away from not only the Catholic church, but from Christiandom all around the globe.
What's really ridiculous is that it seems you're such a hypocrite that no amount of documenting your hypocrisy will be enough for you to see it.