Spirituality
08 Jan 07
15 Jan 07
Originally posted by lucifershammerSurely the pope doesn't require a $200,000 SUV.
Surely any government that tries to protect its citizens by restraining, dissuading or punishing people that wish to do (or actually do) violence against them is no less "enslaving" such people to keep the helpless alive.
15 Jan 07
Originally posted by lucifershammerNo, I don't think this is the standard. If they don't pay their own utility bill, the lights get turned off just like everyone else, inspite of "let there be light."
Originally posted by Nemesio
[b]When I pay my lighting bill, it is after taxes are taken out of my wages. So, I may earn 100 dollars a week, but I take home 75 dollars (say), of which 15 dollars may go to my lighting bill, 10 to my water, 10 to my gas, 5 to food, and 15 to my mortgage. This leaves me 10 dollars.
When the priest's ...[text shortened]... em by their respective congregations.
Then again, maybe things are different in the US.
15 Jan 07
Originally posted by lucifershammerWell, having had a rather wide exposure to US Protestant pastors,
Isn't that true of Protestant pastors as well? Every Protestant minister I've ever known (and I'll admit there aren't that many of them) has had housing, utilities and even their kids' education paid for them by their respective congregations.
I've seen some (but not most) get stipends for living expenses.
That stipend is indeed pre-tax and negotiated as part of their salary
structure. And they can use it for paying part of a mortgage of a
large house or the whole mortgage and utilities of a small house.
(They cannot use it for discretionary spending or even for their kids'
educations.) They also keep milage for their cars when used for
business reasons and get reimbursed by the mile (but not when they
go to the theatre, for example). But they pay for the car themselves.
They do not get cooks or housecleaning help, unless they pay for it
out of their salaries, of course.
In other words, their jobs have some fringe benefits, but they are
responsible for the appropriate management of those benefits (just
like I have to supervise the use of my continuing education budget).
The average Protestant minister certainly doesn't have 15k-18k worth
of discretionary spending to toss around (of course, Saint Thomas on
Fifth Avenue in NYC is going to have a different pay scale than Saint
Rumwold of the Shoals in East Ireland).
But, as I said, this is negotiated by the congregation. It is the
congregation that decides whether they wish to support a stipend and,
if so, how much. Similarly, they define the position as part-time or
full-time and what the duties are. A Roman Catholic priest (and I've
known a lot of them) has no such duties. In a parish I know, there is
a pastor and a curate, one of which makes regular runs to the hospital,
makes calls to people, hears confessions on demand, and is basically
on call 24 hours a day; the other priest barely puts in 10 hours a week
beyond his required Sunday Mass schedule, never visits the sick, only
hears confession when they are scheduled (two half-hour periods a week),
and avoids contact with anything but the television if he can help it.
He is also 10 years younger and this has been his practice for over
30 years in the priesthood.
Both get the same salary, same benefits, same personal treatment.
Such a thing would never be tolerated in a Protestant church but the
RCs are obligated to tolerate it.
I wish I could say that this neglectful priest was an utter rarity, and
while it isn't rampant, it isn't isolated either. That is, the congregation
has neither a say in how their pastor ought to act nor protection from
a pastor who decides he doesn't want to do anything.
Nemesio
15 Jan 07
1 edit
Originally posted by kirksey957I wonder why you're always asking for it, Kirk ? ... did I say asking ? .... you're begging for it .... beggin' I tells ya !
I'm guessing Ivanhoe woud say that is too high for me.
Now listen, Kirk. You're priceless to our cosy little on-line community ... you know that, Kirk .... simply priceless !
16 Jan 07
Originally posted by ivanhoeMaybe I missed something. Were you not asking how much I was making?
I wonder why you're always asking for it, Kirk ? ... did I say asking ? .... you're begging for it .... beggin' I tells ya !
Now listen, Kirk. You're priceless to our cosy little on-line community ... you know that, Kirk .... simply priceless !
16 Jan 07
Originally posted by kirksey957As I was telling Scribbles before he started talking to himself, the world is a big place. Maybe the experience of US Protestant pastors differs quite a bit from the worldwide experience.
No, I don't think this is the standard. If they don't pay their own utility bill, the lights get turned off just like everyone else, inspite of "let there be light."
16 Jan 07
Originally posted by NemesioI wish I could say that this neglectful priest was an utter rarity, and
Well, having had a rather wide exposure to US Protestant pastors,
I've seen some (but not most) get stipends for living expenses.
That stipend is indeed pre-tax and negotiated as part of their salary
structure. And they can use it for paying part of a mortgage of a
large house or the whole mortgage and utilities of a small house.
(They cannot ...[text shortened]... act nor protection from
a pastor who decides he doesn't want to do anything.
Nemesio
while it isn't rampant, it isn't isolated either. That is, the congregation
has neither a say in how their pastor ought to act nor protection from
a pastor who decides he doesn't want to do anything.
The congregation doesn't get to veto him off, sure. That's not the same thing as 'not having a say'. There are many avenues of action open to laity.
Further, in my experience of Catholic priests (since the shoe is on the other foot now), I would say that the kind of priest you've described is indeed an utter rarity. I've known maybe one priest of that type my entire life.