Originally posted by sasquatch672I honestly have no idea what you're talking about.
You have alot of repressed anger and I might even say hate, Darfius. You really want to say bad things to this guy but really, this is the worst thing you can think of to say to someone. You don't bother trading insults with people - you really visualize - and relish the vision, I might add - people who disagree with you burning in the lake of fire. ...[text shortened]... rrespondent, is really a very unbalanced thing. You should go talk to someone. A professional.
Originally posted by DarfiusThat doesn't make any sense at all; I "quote specific words of the Lord because you love your sin"? Why would I bother even reading the Gospels if I simply loved my sin; there's plenty of "sinful" things to check out on the web. According to your fundamentalist cult, Hell won't be a bad place anyway; as Rwingett pointed out why would he care if he was seperated from God for all time; he does fine by himself now. If I believed in Hell, I'd rather be seperated from people who stuck swords in babies in the name of your God anyway.
And you quote specific words of the Lord because you love your sin but know in your heart that you are destined for Hell.
Your belief system relies heavily on your claim that Man is "vile" and your profound self-loathing of your own kind makes you wish that most men will suffer. Therefore, it is important to you that only a tiny group be eternally rewarded; of course, that group contains you. Anything in the gospels that challenges that notion MUST be discarded and if doesn't matter what Jesus said or how specific He said it. He must have meant something else or your whole self-righteous, grandiose vision of yourself collapses like a deck of cards. Hocus-pocus; only the fundamentalist cult can REALLY understand what his words mean! I hope that as you mature you will put aside such a petty, mean spirited and vindictive belief system and actually give some thought to how something like Matthew 25 should guide your daily life. Right now, you have my contempt but you also have my pity, Darfius.
Originally posted by telerionI think this was a a direct slap at the Jews, who had the Law (OT Scriptures), and yet still continues in their blatant sinning. But the Gentiles did not have the OT Law, so they were not guilty of violating the the revealed law. But this does not let the Gentiles off the hook. Paul's going to slap them specifically when he gets to Romans 11.
For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
That doesn't make any sense at all; I "quote specific words of the Lord because you love your sin"? Why would I bother even reading the Gospels if I simply loved my sin; there's plenty of "sinful" things to check out on the web.
My first guess would be to validify your pre-set beliefs anyway you can, rather than reading the New Testament as a whole to see what God wants of you.
According to your fundamentalist cult, Hell won't be a bad place anyway; as Rwingett pointed out why would he care if he was seperated from God for all time; he does fine by himself now. If I believed in Hell, I'd rather be seperated from people who stuck swords in babies in the name of your God anyway.
None of you are seperated from God right now. God is present on Earth in the Holy Spirit through His children. And He whispers to you everyday to let Him into your heart. In Hell, God will be devoid, and since He is the source of all happiness, joy, peace, and love, all of those things will be gone, as well.
Your belief system relies heavily on your claim that Man is "vile" and your profound self-loathing of your own kind makes you wish that most men will suffer. Therefore, it is important to you that only a tiny group be eternally rewarded;
I don't loath my own kind. Pointing out facts (as I said, go to poverty stricken places if you want Man's base nature. Mommy and daddy's credit cards make it rather easy to give off the impression of generosity.) is different from hating people, no1. Before I posted, I prayed that the Lord would calm me down and He has, and I remembered that I love you and will withstand whatever abuse you'd like to hurl at me. Maybe I'll wear you out and finally get you to listen to me. 😀 I want everyone to be eternally rewarded, no1. But me wanting it won't change the fact that not everyone will put aside their pride and put their faith in Christ.
of course, that group contains you. Anything in the gospels that challenges that notion MUST be discarded and if doesn't matter what Jesus said or how specific He said it. He must have meant something else or your whole self-righteous, grandiose vision of yourself collapses like a deck of cards. Hocus-pocus; only the fundamentalist cult can REALLY understand what his words mean! I hope that as you mature you will put aside such a petty, mean spirited and vindictive belief system and actually give some thought to how something like Matthew 25 should guide your daily life. Right now, you have my contempt but you also have my pity, Darfius.
I do not think I am righteous, I think I am a sinner. However, I think the blood of Christ makes me blameless in the eyes of God. NOTHING I do will ever be good, but what Christ does through me will be. I am a sinner, as you are, no1. I've just put my faith in my Maker to save me from it. Good works won't get us to Heaven, no1, because they don't erase the sin we've done. Sin taints our souls and eventually turns us into monsters. That is what is meant by 'spiritual death'. Only the grace of the Creator who loved His creation too much to abandon them saves us from that fate. Matthew 25 is stressing that we can know who is saved because they do good works out of love, rather than our of a desire to look good.
Please don't loathe me, no1, but if you must, loathe me because I am a fellow sinner, not because I think I am better than you, because I don't think I am.
Originally posted by DarfiusSo, why is it about Hell that makes it bad for the damned? As it stands, I think if your God were to actually exist, He would be a real jerk. He lets innocent folk die, inflicts all sorts of pain and suffering on humanity because a couple folk aeons ago disobeyed his command, demands to be loved like a petulant child, as so on. If I have an eternal soul, and must exist forever, I'd prefer to spend eternity in isolation from your God. So, if your God sends me to Hell, I will politely thank Him, take my leave of Him, and count myself lucky to be free from his capricious maliciousness. By the way, what type of Scotch selection to they have in Hell?
Good question.
Let's first remember that though 'God is love.' is a true statement, Love is not His only attribute. Let's check out the rest of them: All-knowing, Eternal, All-powerful, Righteous, Holy, Just.
God cannot be 'more' of one of His attributes than the others, because He is infinite in all of them.
Hell is a place devoid of God. ...[text shortened]... face it, if the created refuses to give thanks and praise and love to its Creator, it is wicked.
So, why is it about Hell that makes it bad for the damned?
It is completely devoid of happiness, joy, peace and love because the source of all that comes from God.
As it stands, I think if your God were to actually exist, He would be a real jerk. He lets innocent folk die, inflicts all sorts of pain and suffering on humanity because a couple folk aeons ago disobeyed his command, demands to be loved like a petulant child, as so on.
Our souls are eternal. Death on Earth is simply the mode of transportation to our real, eternal lives. If they are innocent in the eyes of Christ, they're going to a life of happiness and love. We should celebrate! Pain and suffering is a result of man's sin. Since sin is a conscious effort to go against God's goodness, it stands to reason that unpleasant results would happen! If you have ultimate goodness on one hand, and less than that on the other, and you choose less than goodness, there's gunna be consequences! He sure doesn't like the situation, though, which is why He offers us a better place for eternity. What is a few bad days on Earth compared to bliss for eternity?
If I have an eternal soul, and must exist forever, I'd prefer to spend eternity in isolation from your God.
But why, Bennett? Have you even tried to understand why He does what He does? Don't you know that He loves you and wants the best for you? Would it be terrible to trust Him?
So, if your God sends me to Hell, I will politely thank Him, take my leave of Him, and count myself lucky to be free from his capricious maliciousness. By the way, what type of Scotch selection to they have in Hell?
You'd be sending yourself to Hell, Bennett. And you will curse Him every minute you are there, for eternity, even though you are asking to go now. And it saddens me, because you're doing so for lack of understanding of Him. You hate someone you don't understand. 🙁
Originally posted by DarfiusI see no reason to believe that your God is the source of love or happiness or joy or any of the rest of those wonderful things that make existing worth the trouble. Here's a little argument:
So, why is it about Hell that makes it bad for the damned?
It is completely devoid of happiness, joy, peace and love because the source of all that comes from God.
As it stands, I think if your God were to actually exist, He w ...[text shortened]... understanding of Him. You hate someone you don't understand. 🙁
1. I love my wife.
2. If God did not exist, I would still love my wife.
Hence, my love for my wife does not depend upon God.
Now, you will want to reject the second premise of this argument. I want to know what reasons you have for thinking that the second premise is false.
How are all pain and suffering the result of sin? The pain and suffering that result from natural causes are not the result of any existing person's sin. You may claim that they are the result of the sin of Adam and Eve, but look what that commits you to: Your God is one who will punish the decendants of a person for the crimes of that person. But this is unjust. Hence, your God is unjust. Suppose that Smith steals Brown's wallet. Suppose that Brown beats Smith up for this transgression. Suppose further that Brown goes and finds Smith's children, and beats them up too. Then Brown goes after these children's children, and so on. Such collective punishment is deeply unjust. This is just further evidence of the perversity of your God, and more reason to look forward to that day when I can finally be rid of His presence for good.
I won't be cursing your God in Hell, Darfius. I won't be thinking about Him at all. I'll be too busy making love, drinking Scotch, and talking with other philosophers!
I see no reason to believe that your God is the source of love or happiness or joy or any of the rest of those wonderful things that make existing worth the trouble. Here's a little argument:
1. I love my wife.
2. If God did not exist, I would still love my wife.
Hence, my love for my wife does not depend upon God.
Now, you will want to reject the second premise of this argument. I want to know what reasons you have for thinking that the second premise is false.
I think it's false because if God did not exist, you would not exist. You may ask me think of a world without God, but that's like thinking of a painting painted by a painter who's never been born.
How are all pain and suffering the result of sin? The pain and suffering that result from natural causes are not the result of any existing person's sin. You may claim that they are the result of the sin of Adam and Eve, but look what that commits you to: Your God is one who will punish the decendants of a person for the crimes of that person. But this is unjust. Hence, your God is unjust. Suppose that Smith steals Brown's wallet. Suppose that Brown beats Smith up for this transgression. Suppose further that Brown goes and finds Smith's children, and beats them up too. Then Brown goes after these children's children, and so on. Such collective punishment is deeply unjust. This is just further evidence of the perversity of your God, and more reason to look forward to that day when I can finally be rid of His presence for good.
If we sin once, we are doomed to spiritual deaths, because our souls come from God, and He cannot sin. Imagine that God is the body and we are parts of Him. If we sin, He contracts gangrene, and we must be dispelled. But we have a cure in the blood of Christ, which God offers us because of His love for us. I know I'm rambling, but it's difficult to explain something not of this world. At any rate, that one sin is what opens possiblities of pain and suffering, because when we are with God and without sin, pain and suffering is gone. Don't you understand? It's like sticking your hand in the fire and blaming God for it hurting when He's screaming for you to stop.
I won't be cursing your God in Hell, Darfius. I won't be thinking about Him at all. I'll be too busy making love, drinking Scotch, and talking with other philosophers!
Bennett. 🙁 You still do not understand that Hell will be torture beyond imagination. If you won't believe me, believe Jesus. He wouldn't lie.
Originally posted by DarfiusEven if God is ultimately responsible for love because nothing would exist without God, it does not follow that God is the proximate cause of loving. If this did follow, then God would be the source of all evil in the world as well, because if God didn't exist, then evil would not exist. But, of course, you will claim that humans are the proximate cause of evil, not God. So, again, what reason is there for thinking that God is responsible for the love I have for my wife? Here is another example. My wife and I are both going to go to Hell (in fact, we're looking forward to it for the reasons mentioned above). Now, are you claiming that somehow, mysteriously, once my wife and I are in Hell we will no longer be capable of loving each other? If so, then explain why this is the case.
I see no reason to believe that your God is the source of love or happiness or joy or any of the rest of those wonderful things that make existing worth the trouble. Here's a little argument:
1. I love my wife.
2. If God did not exist ...[text shortened]... tion. If you won't believe me, believe Jesus. He wouldn't lie.
Look Darfius, spare me the rambling on the Blood of Christ. I gave you an argument. Either sin is not responsible for natural pain and suffering, or some original sin is responsible for natural pain and suffering. If the former, then your assertion above is false. If the latter, then your God is unjust for punishing the decendants of the original sinners. Now, there may be some other way in whicn sin is responsible for pain and suffering resulting from natural causes. If so, what is it?
From what you've said about Hell, I don't see how Hell will be torturous. You've still given me no reason for thinking that I won't be able to love and be loved in Hell, and the people there are certainly more fun (we will sing karaoke, you will sing in a choir).