Hell

Originally posted by no1marauder
By nobody; what part of a "natural law requires no lawgiver" don't you understand? And why is a meaningless question when you refer to natural laws; why does E=MC squared?

So you are saying that there is no intention, rather, the law of Karma simply exists. However, the consequences in terms of humans relating to that law suggest that it is a corrective motivating factor regardless of whether you think a God is behind such laws or not.

Originally posted by whodey
But if what God wants is best for us because he loves us then going against what he tells us to do is equivalent to shooting ourselves in the foot leading us to suffering/hell. Therein lies the delimma. He loves us and wants what is best for us, therefore, he motivates us "to do the right thing". If he forced us to do the right thing then love is not part ...[text shortened]... other hand, he ignores our self destructive ways then he would be indifferent and not loving.

That's a bunch of nonsense for reasons that have been repeatedly explained to you. Maybe you think love can be purchased by threatening those who don't do as you say with eternal punishment and that is "love" and "free will" but it's pretty obvious that's a bunch of BS. Placing a gun to someone's head does not enhance their ability to act according to free will. You only believe such a nonsensical idea because you have been told it over and over again, but you really need to empty the cup and think about such things with a clear mind.

Was eating from the Tree of Knowledge "self-destructive" in and of itself? Of course not; it was only destructive because your petty God became enraged that his dictates weren't followed. This is a God of spite and anger, not of love.

Originally posted by whodey
So you are saying that there is no intention, rather, the law of Karma simply exists. However, the consequences in terms of humans relating to that law suggest that it is a corrective motivating factor regardless of whether you think a God is behind such laws or not.

Yes, natural laws have effects on the behavior of humans. You don't walk off a cliff because you know that the law of gravity will cause you to quickly plunge to the ground. Does that make the law of gravity a "corrective motivating factor"? If so, so what?

Originally posted by Kakistocrat
Do you believe it exists?
Is eternal?
How do you get there?

Some of these issues are explored at http://kakistocrat.blogsome.com/

Discussion is welcome (there preferrably)...

No.
N/A
N/A

Originally posted by whodey
I would just like to point out the apparent contradiction of a God who both punishes and loves. It would seem the longer the punishment or the more sever the punishment the more unjust it is percieved to be. However, we are in agreement that both punishment and love are compatible, or at least on some level. To what level is then subjective and speculative. No doubt it is a complex issue and for one I do not have all the answers.

Loving and punishing is only a contradiction to a being with the three O's. Humans punishing one another is an attempt to control one another, but a triple O being wouldn't need to do such a thing to control people.

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
Loving and punishing is only a contradiction to a being with the three O's. Humans punishing one another is an attempt to control one another, but a triple O being wouldn't need to do such a thing to control people.

What about just one Big-O? =)

In any case, I find that karma, like sin, are unnecessary concepts.
It is folly to condition ourselves to do what is "right" because of magical/mythical consequences be it either hell, heaven, or karma.

It's hard enough to know who each of us truly is at the end of the day.
Why complicate it by trying to be someone else?

Originally posted by no1marauder
but it's pretty obvious that's a bunch of BS. Placing a gun to someone's head does not enhance their ability to act according to free will.

But if one does not believe that there is a gun to ones head who feels coerced? Perhaps this is why he does not "prove" himself to mankind.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Was eating from the Tree of Knowledge "self-destructive" in and of itself? Of course not; it was only destructive because your petty God became enraged that his dictates weren't followed. This is a God of spite and anger, not of love.[/b]

Partaking of the fruit of the tree was a representation of mankind going it on his own. No longer must we rely on the all knowing and all powerful God that made us and loves us. Now we can do better than he.....

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
Loving and punishing is only a contradiction to a being with the three O's. Humans punishing one another is an attempt to control one another, but a triple O being wouldn't need to do such a thing to control people.

But there are different forms of punishment ar'nt there? For example, a parent who loves their child punishes out of love. Conversly, a parent who does not love thier child usually punishes purely out of anger/frustration. Punishment does not require love in the mix, however, it can.

Originally posted by mdhall
What about just one Big-O? =)

In any case, I find that karma, like sin, are unnecessary concepts.
It is folly to condition ourselves to do what is "right" because of magical/mythical consequences be it either hell, heaven, or karma.

It's hard enough to know who each of us truly is at the end of the day.
Why complicate it by trying to be someone else?

But to think that what you sow you will not reap is in error whether you believe in God or not. In effect, every action you take in life is an investment of some kind in which you will reap dividends. Therefore, invest wisely. 😀

Originally posted by no1marauder
By nobody; what part of a "natural law requires no lawgiver" don't you understand? And why is a meaningless question when you refer to natural laws; why does E=MC squared?

It comes from the invariance of the speed of light for any referential. No God needed for that one... again...

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
Loving and punishing is only a contradiction to a being with the three O's. Humans punishing one another is an attempt to control one another, but a triple O being wouldn't need to do such a thing to control people.

We must have free will to have a mutually loving relationship with such a being. Otherwise without such free will to love him back love is not in the mix thus God would not be a God of love. Therefore, God can only try to appeal to our better senses and not force us to "do the right thing"

People keep saying that if God is a God of love then why all the suffering? Well suffering comes from sinners who choose to sin who must have the choice to sin. God must allow them to be able to sin otherwise they have no true free will. Then once they do choose sin/suffering, what is the loving thing to do? Is it not to end such suffering and its effects for the rest of creation? In fact, hell seems to represent such an answer as is the cross as we see in Revelation that at some point God will simply send those who do not choose love to be apart from the rest of creation without manipulating their free will to do otherwise.

Originally posted by whodey
But there are different forms of punishment ar'nt there? For example, a parent who loves their child punishes out of love. Conversly, a parent who does not love thier child usually punishes purely out of anger/frustration. Punishment does not require love in the mix, however, it can.

A parent who punishes out of love only does so because they cant find a better way. In my experience punishment is never the best way and certainly not the most loving way. Most parents actually use it out of anger/frustration as you say.

Originally posted by whodey
But if one does not believe that there is a gun to ones head who feels coerced? Perhaps this is why he does not "prove" himself to mankind.

Huh??? The things you say are truly unbelievable sometimes. Actually think about this post and you'll realize what utter rubbish it is according to your theology.

Originally posted by whodey
Partaking of the fruit of the tree was a representation of mankind going it on his own. No longer must we rely on the all knowing and all powerful God that made us and loves us. Now we can do better than he.....

Again think of what you're saying rather than spewing out the story you have been told. If God loved us, why would it enrage him that Man was going on his own? This God "loves" us like OJ "loved" Nicole.