Originally posted by @karoly-aczel
I find it odd that despite hundreds of years of so called advancements fundamental problems like this have not been better understood than they werein Aristotle's time,despite realativity theory, quantum theory and many other time bending phenomena discovered in the known universe.

Except they are better understood.

For instance, it's well studied that many decisions "we" make, "we"'ve already made sub-counsciously before we become aware of it.

Can we really be said to have free will if we only become aware of our choices until after we've made them?

Originally posted by @great-king-rat
Except they are better understood.

For instance, it's well studied that many decisions "we" make, "we"'ve already made sub-counsciously before we become aware of it.

Can we really be said to have free will if we only become aware of our choices until after we've made them?

For instance, it's well studied that many decisions "we" make, "we"'ve already made sub-counsciously before we become aware of it.

Can we really be said to have free will if we only become aware of our choices until after we've made them?

Actually we can. Just because some choices are made unconsciously does not mean that no choices are made consciously.

You should also consider the implications of the following:

Brihadaranyaka Upanishad 4.4.5-6 
Now as a man is like this or like that, 
according as he acts and according as he behaves, so will he be: 
a man of good acts will become good, a man of bad acts, bad. 
He becomes pure by pure deeds, bad by bad deeds. 
And here they say that a person consists of desires. 
And as is his desire, so is his will; 
and as is his will, so is his deed; 
and whatever deed he does, that he will reap. 

Originally posted by @thinkofone
[b]Simply put: From a higher vibrational perspective , which is available to us all, Yes. Yes all our lives can be seen. . . .I care not for any sort of clairvoyance or phrophesizing. Others may.

If you can reasonably reconcile the problem, then do so. If you can't reasonably articulate a way to reconcile the problem, then own the fact that you ca ...[text shortened]... on your part. Truth is my guide.

"Seek first the Kingdom"

"The truth will make you free".[/b]

I own the fact that I cant reconcile the 'problem' in words or concepts. Doesn't mean I dont know it. After all, how to explain something which has no precedent ? Something which is beyond any intellectual ken? . . . .You may have misunderstood me. Authority issues are at the core of everyone. I'm free to come back to this backwater planet to finish my stint. so I'm here without anything to hold me here now. And for what? To be misunderstood? To be ridiculed and belittled? To be accused when I am innocent? Well so be it. If it be the will of the Lord

Originally posted by @great-king-rat
Except they are better understood.

For instance, it's well studied that many decisions "we" make, "we"'ve already made sub-counsciously before we become aware of it.

Can we really be said to have free will if we only become aware of our choices until after we've made them?

I still have control of the subconcious becoming concious,sometimes delaying it at other times suppressing it altogether.

Originally posted by @karoly-aczel
I own the fact that I cant reconcile the 'problem' in words or concepts. Doesn't mean I dont know it. After all, how to explain something which has no precedent ? Something which is beyond any intellectual ken? . . . .You may have misunderstood me. Authority issues are at the core of everyone. I'm free to come back to this backwater planet to finish ...[text shortened]... ed and belittled? To be accused when I am innocent? Well so be it. If it be the will of the Lord

You need to rethink your position on this.

You've created a problem where none exists by insisting on keeping a belief that you can't make a case for.

Originally posted by @karoly-aczel
I still have control of the subconcious becoming concious,sometimes delaying it at other times suppressing it altogether.

Yes. The conscious has veto power which gives the individual free will.

Originally posted by @thinkofone
You need to rethink your position on this.

You've created a problem where none exists by insisting on keeping a belief that you can't make a case for.

With all due respect and the possibility I may be out of line, how is me not being able to make a case positive proof that my claim is invalid??

After all I have read numerous claims by numerous theists here who could not even make a shaky, illogical claim about cat food ,yet still get a positive reception from others.

Originally posted by @karoly-aczel
With all due respect and the possibility I may be out of line, how is me not being able to make a case positive proof that my claim is invalid??

After all I have read numerous claims by numerous theists here who could not even make a shaky, illogical claim about cat food ,yet still get a positive reception from others.

In the post to which I initially responded, the first two paragraphs were reasonably well thought out and showed a much deeper understanding than most who post on this forum. It's coherent and the foundation is sound.

While you may find the concept that everything is planned down to the last detail to be appealing on some level, it does not cohere with free will and renders your foundation unsound.

After all I have read numerous claims by numerous theists here who could not even make a shaky, illogical claim about cat food ,yet still get a positive reception from others.

Their foundation is incoherent and unsound. It's a conglomeration of disparate concepts that they find appealing on some level. The result is an unsound foundation and aversion to truth. In order to bolster their delusions about their rickety foundation, they constantly give each other positive feedback.

Originally posted by @whodey
IF God is all powerful and all knowing, there must be a way to allow free will even though you may ultimately know the outcome, otherwise you are not all powerful.

Naturally, if you can't understand how then it must all be BS, right?

I didn't mention a god or gods. You make the unproven assumption about your own belief system and bring it into a discussion about knowledge of past, present and future. As I said, knowledge of past, present and future does not (in itself) indicate divinity. That is part of your belief system, not mine.

Originally posted by @thinkofone
In the post to which I initially responded, the first two paragraphs were reasonably well thought out and showed a much deeper understanding than most who post on this forum. It's coherent and the foundation is sound.

While you may find the concept that everything is planned down to the last detail to be appealing on some level, it does not cohere wit ...[text shortened]... eir delusions about their rickety foundation, they constantly give each other positive feedback.

Yes, I've not been saying it right. You are dead right. I know I do have a point to make but in the absence of the right words I'll just tuck my tail between my legs and revisit this later 🙂

Originally posted by @caissad4
I didn't mention a god or gods. You make the unproven assumption about your own belief system and bring it into a discussion about knowledge of past, present and future. As I said, knowledge of past, present and future does not (in itself) indicate divinity. That is part of your belief system, not mine.

Did you catch that whodey?? Snap Caissad4 !!