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17 Aug 12
how far does gods forgiveness stretch? will he forgive anybody as longs they repent?
how does this translate to earthly doings of christians? are chrisftians expected to show forgiveness to anybody who repents. i guess what im asking is do churches have the right to ban people from attending if they have cause for concern, or if a person with a shady past says they have found god and have repented does the church have to take them by there words?
has anybody belonged to a church that has banned people?
has anybody been banned from a church (looking in your direction r.j.)
17 Aug 12
2 edits
Originally posted by stellspalfie
how far does gods forgiveness stretch? will he forgive anybody as longs they repent?
how does this translate to earthly doings of christians? are chrisftians expected to show forgiveness to anybody who repents. i guess what im asking is do churches have the right to ban people from attending if they have cause for concern, or if a person with a shady ...[text shortened]... hat has banned people?
has anybody been banned from a church (looking in your direction r.j.)
how far does gods forgiveness stretch? will he forgive anybody as longs they repent?
God looks upon the sinner that has believed into Christ as if he had never sinned at all. The sins of that sinner were not overlooked. They were judged.
On the cross of Calvary justice was imputed upon the Jesus Christ on behalf of the believer. God has judged those sins and now the sinner is looked upon by God as if he had never sinned.
The distance between the former guilt of the sinner and the sinner is an infinite distance. I say this based on the words of God that He would remove the sins of the people as far away as the east is from the west. That is a distance of infinity - the distance between the east and the west in the universe.
I am only going to answer this part of your two part question. And volumes could be written. Are you sincere in your question ? Or are you hunting for some problems to argue about ?
The description of the new covenant includes these words "For I will be propitious to their unrighteousnesses, and their sins I shall by no means remember any more." (Hebrew 8:12)
If I were to believe into Jesus Christ this morning for the first time and tomorrow go back to discuss the guilt of my sins again, it would be as if God said I have no idea what you are talking about. I don't remember your sins anymore."
When God forgets something, it is GONE ! In Jesus Christ your past = Jesus Christ Himself. Your legacy = Jesus Christ Himself. Your history = Jesus Christ Himself.
God does not liberally or sentimentally say "Well, I know you didn't mean it. Let's just forget about it because you really didn't mean to do that."
That is not the redemption of Jesus Christ. The redemption of Christ is that your sins were JUDGED in the body of Jesus on His cross. Justice was imputed on your behalf upon the Son of God. You were punish in the Substitute - the Son of God. He bore up your guilt and received the wrath of God on your behalf. Substitution takes place when you are joined to Jesus in faith.
Now your past is no longer what you did. Your past before God is Christ Himself. But this to those who believe into the living and available Spirit of Christ today. Substitution takes place when you believe into the Son of God.
Your legacy, your past, your history, what you did in all of its filth and offense is cast into the sea of His forgetfulness.
Micah 7:19 is the backround of this expression - "He will again have compassion on us; He will tread our iniquities underfoot And you will cast into the depths of the sea all their sins."
how does this translate to earthly doings of christians? are chrisftians expected to show forgiveness to anybody who repents. i guess what im asking is do churches have the right to ban people from attending if they have cause for concern, or if a person with a shady past says they have found god and have repented does the church have to take them by there words?
has anybody belonged to a church that has banned people?
I am not going to give any attention to this part of you post right now. First I want to see how my replies up to now are received. How clear is the reader about redemption in Christ. First things first with this replier.
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17 Aug 12
Originally posted by jaywillerr, i think your answer is - god gives you a clean slate, but only if you are genuine.how far does gods forgiveness stretch? will he forgive anybody as longs they repent?
God looks upon the sinner that has believed into Christ as if he had never sinned at all. The sins of that sinner were not overlooked. They were judged.
On the cross of Calvary justice was imputed upon the Jesus Christ on behalf of the believer. Go ...[text shortened]... clear is the reader about redemption in Christ. First things first with this replier.
"Are you sincere in your question ? Or are you hunting for some problems to argue about ?
is it possible to do both at the same time?
17 Aug 12
1 edit
Originally posted by stellspalfieby Jaywill
err, i think your answer is - god gives you a clean slate, but only if you are genuine.
"[b]Are you sincere in your question ? Or are you hunting for some problems to argue about ?
is it possible to do both at the same time?[/b]
"Are you sincere in your question ? Or are you hunting for some problems to argue" about ?
by stellspalfie
"is it possible to do both at the same time?"
You would think in a forum both would be essential for stimulating debate, and getting at the truth.
17 Aug 12
1 edit
Originally posted by stellspalfie
err, i think your answer is - god gives you a clean slate, but only if you are genuine.
"[b]Are you sincere in your question ? Or are you hunting for some problems to argue about ?
is it possible to do both at the same time?[/b]
err, i think your answer is - god gives you a clean slate, but only if you are genuine.
God does give a clean slate. Rather the clean slate is Jesus Christ Himself. There is no cleaner slate. The genuineness is not so much yours as it is Christ's.
It is not hard to receive Christ. It is not hard to believe into Jesus Christ and receive eternal life and eternal redemption. It is not hard.
And many came and still coming not fully knowing what they are getting into. Maybe none of us realize the extensive implications of what we are doing.
If is God's faithfulness, God's genuiness which is the most important. We simply open our hearts - open up our lives to Christ and believe to put our life in His hands.
It is the genuineness of Christ which is the most important saving element. It is the faithfulness of God which is the most important saving factor.
When you accept a gift there is nothing left for you to brag about. You cannot boast in what you have simply reached out and received as a gift. God's genuiness , God's faithfulness, God's trustworthiness is the more vital factor.
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17 Aug 12
Originally posted by jaywilla man is in a car crash, he survives but has brain damage, the brain damage causes his to fly into uncontrollable rages in which he becomes violent and attacks people. he believes in god and feels guilty for hurting people but is unable to stop due to his medical condition. does god forgive him for his actions?err, i think your answer is - god gives you a clean slate, but only if you are genuine.
God does give a clean slate. Rather the clean slate is Jesus Christ Himself. There is no cleaner slate. The genuineness is not so much yours as it is Christ's.
It is not hard to receive Christ. It is not hard to believe into Jesus Christ and r ...[text shortened]... ft. God's genuiness , God's faithfulness, God's trustworthiness is the more vital factor.
17 Aug 12
3 edits
Originally posted by stellspalfie
a man is in a car crash, he survives but has brain damage, the brain damage causes his to fly into uncontrollable rages in which he becomes violent and attacks people. he believes in god and feels guilty for hurting people but is unable to stop due to his medical condition. does god forgive him for his actions?
a man is in a car crash, he survives but has brain damage, the brain damage causes his to fly into uncontrollable rages in which he becomes violent and attacks people. he believes in god and feels guilty for hurting people but is unable to stop due to his medical condition. does god forgive him for his actions?
It is impossible that God should overlook something.
This is God. It is impossible that His knowledge about anyone's situation should be short a few important details.
He upholds every atom in the entire universe. He names the stars, all of them. The hairs on your head are numbered. If you yanked one out God would know which number hair it was.
A second to Him can be like a year, a micro second like a century - knowing all the details of everything that occured in that minute amount of time. This is the Almighty. And Christ is the Mediator of God and man.
We may rest assured that He has not overlooked some factor, not accounted for some nuance of the situation. His insight into each man's situation is without obscurity. His knowledge is infallible.
This is God. We do not have to tap Him on the shoulder and inform Him of some detail that He may have not taken into account.
But we should pray for everyone. If Jesus dying on the cross said "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." (Luke 23:34) we needn't doubt that the Almighty will have perfect insight into every human's situation. That is from the sperm and egg to the last breath, the last beat of the heart, the last electron sent down the nervous system.
Because we cannot predict God's thought in every conceivable situation does not mean that we cannot trust God.
17 Aug 12
Originally posted by stellspalfieIt sounds as if you are trying to find a loop hole is God's system that you can slip through. You can not pretend to repent before God and get away with it like you can before man. What happens in any particular chuch is up to those members. If they refuse to accept your repentence then you will not be accepted as a repenting member of the church. I have never been in a church and witnessed such a thing happening, however. So it is most likely that they will accept you at your word, until you show them your repentence was not really genuine.
how far does gods forgiveness stretch? will he forgive anybody as longs they repent?
how does this translate to earthly doings of christians? are chrisftians expected to show forgiveness to anybody who repents. i guess what im asking is do churches have the right to ban people from attending if they have cause for concern, or if a person with a shady ...[text shortened]... hat has banned people?
has anybody been banned from a church (looking in your direction r.j.)
17 Aug 12
1 edit
Originally posted by stellspalfie
how far does gods forgiveness stretch? will he forgive anybody as longs they repent?
how does this translate to earthly doings of christians? are chrisftians expected to show forgiveness to anybody who repents. i guess what im asking is do churches have the right to ban people from attending if they have cause for concern, or if a person with a shady ...[text shortened]... hat has banned people?
has anybody been banned from a church (looking in your direction r.j.)
how does this translate to earthly doings of christians? are chrisftians expected to show forgiveness to anybody who repents. i guess what im asking is do churches have the right to ban people from attending if they have cause for concern, or if a person with a shady past says they have found god and have repented does the church have to take them by there words?
I have allowed a little time to digest the post on God's forgiveness. Shortly, I will take up the next section of your question.
You need to realize that there are FOUR classes (for lack of a better word) of forgiveness in the New Testament. In this post I will only outline for you these five distinct kinds of forgiveness. (Maybe there is a fifth. I cannot recall it now).
When you realize how fogiveness is used in the Bible along these four species, you can not be confused about various mentions of forgiveness.
1.) Forgiveness unto eternal redemption. This is the forgiveness which results in the believer obtaining eternal life as a irrevocable gift. My post above was only focused on this first class of God's forgiveness.
This is a verticle forgiveness between the human and God in Christ alone. Only God can bestow this forgiveness unto eternal redemption to God.
2.) Forgiveness for maintaining daily fellowship with God. This is not related to all the sinner's past sins. This is related to the ever encreasing enlightement in the believer, of the way he still lives which causes some interruption in the moment by moment fellowship between him and God.
Though my past has been eradicated. I now embark on my daily communion with God - a moment by moment spiritual walk. As I grow I become more and more aware of things in my living which need confession before God, forgivenss for restored and smooth continued fellowship between God and man.
3.) Forgiveness of the local church toward a fellow Christian. This is the forgiveness related to the second class. It is more horizontal. Offenses against the church may be forgiven. The previous verticle forgivenss was to maintain smooth continued moment by moment fellowship with the Father in our daily walk. This horizontal forgiveness is for smooth and continued fellowship between believer and believer for a practical unity.
The church cannot determine to take away anyone's eternal redemption. The pope cannot determine that a person is not eternally forgiven. And no Christian can take away the eternal redemption Christ has bestowed by any form of church discipline.
The assembly may, however, forgive behavior that damages the peaceful churching life of its members.
4.) Forgivness related to dispensational reward or discipline. This forgiveness is related to the believers reward or discipline during the 1,000 year millennial kingdom immediately following the second coming of Christ.
Notice that in #2 it is understood that a man confess his sins in order to be forgiven for continuous fellowship. But suppose I as a Christian never confess a certain sin which God has brought to light in my living.
I must confess sometime. And if I do not confess and forsake that behavior in the age of grace there is the possibility that I will be disciplined during the 1,000 year kingdom. There is a forgivness related to the reward or punishment of believers not in eternity, but during the 1,000 year millennial kingdom.
Examples of these different classes of forgiveness can be provided from the Bible. And studied carefully there should be no confusion. But this I need to write before I would directly address your questions about church discipline etc.
