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27 Jan 21
1 edit
@fmf saidThat post was just too jolly.
While I, indeed, think this issue of "conscience" [and "consciousness"] is as good a piece of evidence of the existence of a creator being as theists have got, I don't see how then insisting on attaching to it ancient Hebrew narratives and Christian offshoot ideology is credible at all. Was it invented? Designed? Fair questions. But 'It was designed and the Jesus God did it' is weak by comparison.
Let me recover from the joy attack before I reply.
The atheist conscience is the result of only atoms interacting.
I don't see how he "chooses" to believe what is good and true anyhow.
The bubbling and fissing of molecules and the firing off of electric synapses is his only cause of the conscience working.
When he thinks religion comes around the bubbling and fissing intensifies greatly for some reason.
27 Jan 21
@sonship saidWell then, if you don't, you should perhaps get involved in some of the discussions about morality that go on here - and which you seem to studiously avoid - choosing instead to type out walls of text and lashing out when interrupted.
The atheist conscience is the result of only atoms interacting. I don't see how he "chooses" to believe what is good and true anyhow.
@sonship saidLike I said, I think this issue of "conscience" is evidence for the existence of a creator being, I see that, but I don't see it as credible evidence that the Christian cult of personality centred on Jesus has anything to do with it.
The bubbling and fissing of molecules and the firing off of electric synapses is his only cause of the conscience working.
27 Jan 21
@sonship saidGod put the knowledge of good and evil into all men, including atheists. The is why in Romans 2, Paul said that all men will be judged because all men have the same conscience. In fact many of the things Christ and the Apostles preached were completely unnecessary. There are people who never read any bible neither know anything about God but still know right from wrong.
That post was just too jolly.
Let me recover from the joy attack before I reply.
The atheist conscience is the result of only atoms interacting.
I don't see how he "chooses" to believe what is good and true anyhow.
The bubbling and fissing of molecules and the firing off of electric synapses is his only cause of the conscience working.
When he thinks religion comes around the bubbling and fissing intensifies greatly for some reason.
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27 Jan 21
1 edit
@FMF
We don't believe that Christ rose from the dead and that started a "cult of personality". His life, death and resurrection gave birth to a recognition that God became a man.
And if Christ is fictional we should find out what genius invented Christ and
pay attention to that personality.
27 Jan 21
@sonship saidHow long ago did you last try to lead someone (in real life) away from their destination of being burned alive for eternity?
@FMF
We don't believe that Christ rose from the dead and that started a "cult of personality". His life, death and resurrection gave birth to a recognition that God became a man.
And if Christ is fictional we should find out what genius invented Christ and
pay attention to that personality.
28 Jan 21
@sonship saidRegardless of the details of its particular narratives ~ and regardless of whatever assertions you make about his identity and his significance ~ your religion is nevertheless essentially a cult of personality.
We don't believe that Christ rose from the dead and that started a "cult of personality". His life, death and resurrection gave birth to a recognition that God became a man.
28 Jan 21
@sonship saidYour admiration for the Christ figure in your faith is noted, but your attempts over the years to assert that the story must be divinely inspired - because you personally cannot imagine that it is a story penned by humans - has got to be, as some kind of Appeal to Your Own Certainty, one of the weakest bits of "evidence" you present.
And if Christ is fictional we should find out what genius invented Christ and pay attention to that personality.
@divegeester saidsonship once claimed that he believed I may have caused "hundreds" of RHP members to face being burned alive for eternity as a result of being exposed to my non-Christian perspectives. Perhaps, he thinks he is battling here to save "hundreds" of such people on this website.
How long ago did you last try to lead someone (in real life) away from their destination of being burned alive for eternity?
28 Jan 21
@sonship saidCan you clarify that you have no memory of saying that, or just relying on the difficulty of tracking down such an old post?
Show us the post.
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@divegeester saidThis thread is about realizing that to judge others establishes a basis to be judged yourself. This is a theme of Paul's section on the condemnation of the self righteous.
How long ago did you last try to lead someone (in real life) away from their destination of being burned alive for eternity?
Before Paul states this in 2:1 he enumerates a sample list of sins commonly committed by all of us. First his conclusion below and then the preceding list.
"Therefore you are without excuse, O every man who judges, for in what you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things." (2:1)
This is based on this.
"And even as they did not approve of holding God in their full knowledge, God gave them up to a disapproved mind, to do the things which are not fitting.
Being filled with unrighteousness, wickedness, covetousness, malice; full of envy, murder, arrogant, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, senseless, faithless, affectionless, merciless;
Who though fully knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, not only do them, but also have fellow delight in those who practice them. " (1:28-32)
This is pretty convicting for something catches all of us. And often "fellow delight" is taken in the heart of those observing others do such things.
Then Paul in 2:1 warns that everyone of us is left without an excuse. For we do them ourselves as we pass judgment on others.
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@Ghost-of-a-Duke
As is usually the case, when a charge like this is made against myself, I want to see the context of then basis for the charge as it allegedly appeared on the Forum.
What statements were said before to me by others?
In reaction to WHAT was such a statement supposedly made?
Was there some provocation to which such a strong statement?
I put the burden of the one making the charge to produce the evidence so that
these things may be examined.
I would say this. When FMF makes an accusation usually it to a spin a narrative that he wishes to convey. Exaggeration is a form of lying.
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28 Jan 21
Your admiration for the Christ figure in your faith is noted,
We more than admire Christ. We love Him because He is available.
If He were not available to be known it might stop at admiration.
But He made Himself in resurrection available. I know it is impossible to pretend to believe what you do not believe. But that cannot be blamed on Christ.
but your attempts over the years to assert that the story must be divinely inspired - because you personally cannot imagine that it is a story penned by humans
And you cannot imagine Someone so wonderful as the Son of God.
- has got to be, as some kind of Appeal to Your Own Certainty, one of the weakest bits of "evidence" you present.
Whatever.
You said you realized it is possible that essentially a sense of moral obligation may be evidence for God. Not exactly in those words.
Good. Well let's get your exact words.
" While I, indeed, think this issue of "conscience" [and "consciousness"] is as good a piece of evidence of the existence of a creator being as theists have got,
I know you wrote more. This is the part I refer as confirming the OP.
If anyone wants to see the rest of what FMF said there, no problem,
While I, indeed, think this issue of "conscience" [and "consciousness"] is as good a piece of evidence of the existence of a creator being as theists have got, I don't see how then insisting on attaching to it ancient Hebrew narratives and Christian offshoot ideology is credible at all. Was it invented? Designed? Fair questions. But 'It was designed and the Jesus God did it' is weak by comparison.
Comment somebody.
I remarked what I wanted to remark.
28 Jan 21
@sonship saidIn these forums it is virtually impossible to retrieve a post that was made more than 3 months ago, so don't actually think it is reasonable to put the burden on the person recalling something you have said. (Which incidentally, I remember you posting myself).
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
As is usually the case, when a charge like this is made against myself, I want to see the context of then basis for the charge as it allegedly appeared on the Forum.
What statements were said before to me by others?
In reaction to WHAT was such a statement supposedly made?
Was there some provocation to which such a strong statement was made?
...[text shortened]... usation usually it to a spin a narrative that he wishes to convey. Exaggeration is a form of lying.
So I ask again, do you have no memory of saying that? Surely if you said it at the time you still hold the same view? Or are your statements transitory and irrelevant?