Faith transcends logic

@moonbus said
Not every question deserves an answer. Some questions are silly: 'isn't the present King of France a tadpole flagelator?' is a silly question. If you answer either 'yes' or 'no', you affirm that there is a present King of France (whether or not he flagellates tadpoles). Rejecting the question is the proper answer, because there is no present King of France. There's no there t ...[text shortened]... ical forces at work in the universe now (chemical bonds, electromagnetism, genetics, gravity, etc.).

Questions about origins are not silly nor are they useless, your proclamations about what is and isn't natural can only be known if you know how it all started. In the beginning, God alters everything you think is natural. You don't even have an explanation that covers all of the things in the universe, so you punt.

@kellyjay said
You don't even have an explanation that covers all of the things in the universe, so you punt.

You should always bear in mind that the fact that, amidst all the mystery and speculation, you have settled for an "explanation" that you think "covers all of the things in the universe" is not a persuasive "argument" to people who are not convinced by the Abrahamic narrative that you subscribe to.

@kellyjay said
Questions about origins are not silly nor are they useless, your proclamations about what is and isn't natural can only be known if you know how it all started. In the beginning, God alters everything you think is natural. You don't even have an explanation that covers all of the things in the universe, so you punt.

That’s equivalent to saying you can’t understand chess if you don’t know the origin of chess, who invented it or what the very first move in the very first game was. Nonsense.

@josephw said
On the contrary, there is a reason to ask the question about origins, and it's not a "silly question".

One can no more dispel the idea that all that exists had an origin than one can dispel the idea that all that exists has always existed in one form or another.

What is silly is the presumption that one can answer the question based on insufficient evidence.

And in k ...[text shortened]... standing the infinite than logic, reason or science because those tools cannot be used to grasp God.

That’s equivalent to saying you can’t understand chess if you don’t know the origin of chess, who invented it or what the very first move in the very first game was. Nonsense.

@kellyjay said
Faith doesn't ignore logic, logically readable code that has instructions built into it was not done mindlessly, you think that is a false statement show YOUR LOGIC.

Faith in a supernatural creator does ignore logic. As has been amply demonstrated in these forums, there is nothing to disprove that nature alone has made the natural world around us, indeed there is a great deal of evidence that it did, whereas aside from ancient writings, which is no evidence at all, there is no evidence for a creator god. Faith is ignorance.

@indonesia-phil said
Faith in a supernatural creator does ignore logic. As has been amply demonstrated in these forums, there is nothing to disprove that nature alone has made the natural world around us, indeed there is a great deal of evidence that it did, whereas aside from ancient writings, which is no evidence at all, there is no evidence for a creator god. Faith is ignorance.

"Faith is believing what you know ain't so."

-- Mark Twain

@moonbus said
"Faith is believing what you know ain't so."

-- Mark Twain

Well, that must cover you. A meaningless statement.

@indonesia-phil said
Faith in a supernatural creator does ignore logic. As has been amply demonstrated in these forums, there is nothing to disprove that nature alone has made the natural world around us, indeed there is a great deal of evidence that it did, whereas aside from ancient writings, which is no evidence at all, there is no evidence for a creator god. Faith is ignorance.

Faith has to do with the fidelity of someone or thing. Faith in our Creator to those that choose to deny Him at every turn no matter what, doesn't make Him less credible. Your faith in nothing and mindlessness is based on your dislike of the idea there is a creator not that "nothing and mindlessness' have anything positive you can point to so you can see this is why.

@kellyjay said
Faith has to do with the fidelity of someone or thing.

faith
noun
1.
complete trust or confidence in someone or something.

2.
strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.

"Faith" has more than one meaning. Your type of faith falls into the second one, which is the focus of the OP.

@moonbus said
That’s equivalent to saying you can’t understand chess if you don’t know the origin of chess, who invented it or what the very first move in the very first game was. Nonsense.

Even the games require rules to be played, if you do not know them, having a chess board and pieces doesn't mean you will be able to set up the pieces, let alone play. Life in this respect is no different, except we know there are things we should and shouldn't do, even if we think they are fuzzy and we can disagree. You dismiss the origin where these things are foundational for life as if it doesn't matter, the only thing you are doing with that mindset is avoiding being wrong, just so you can make up the rules to suit you. You can avoid being wrong if you deny there is a right.

@vivify said

faith
noun
1.
complete trust or confidence in someone or something.

2.
strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.

"Faith" has more than one meaning. Your type of faith falls into the second one, which is the focus of the OP.

If you want to deny what is being said and why due to the redefining of that word that is up to you.

@vivify said

faith
noun
1.
complete trust or confidence in someone or something.

2.
strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.

"Faith" has more than one meaning. Your type of faith falls into the second one, which is the focus of the OP.

I have only ever used the first definition whenever I use that word.

@vivify said

faith
noun
1.
complete trust or confidence in someone or something.

2.
strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.

"Faith" has more than one meaning. Your type of faith falls into the second one, which is the focus of the OP.

I can also give you cause for the things I believe in, can you produce reasons for believing in nothing started it all, or that mindlessness put the instructions into life, on every point here I think you are coming up short.

@kellyjay said
I can also give you cause for the things I believe in, can you produce reasons for believing in nothing started it all, or that mindlessness put the instructions into life, on every point here I think you are coming up short.

Can you quote anybody who has stated 'nothing started it all' or 'mindlessness put the instructions into life'?

Or do you simply enjoy misrepresenting what others believe? -Would it be ok to claim you believe God sits on a white fluffy cloud, and then set about criticizing this belief?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Can you quote anybody who has stated 'nothing started it all' or 'mindlessness put the instructions into life'?

Or do you simply enjoy misrepresenting what others believe? -Would it be ok to claim you believe God sits on a white fluffy cloud, and then set about criticizing this belief?

Here is your problem, ignoring it doesn't make it go away, as soon as you deny a mind you promoting mindlessness, as soon as you deny something started you are saying nothing started it. If you wish to add to the conversation it always was, you are going against two things science and religion so an explanation is required. If you don't have one, sticking one's head in the sand is not an answer.