23 May 07
Originally posted by epiphinehasWhat part of "certain" don't you understand?
"Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was made from things that are not visible" (Hebrews 11:1,3).
24 May 07
Originally posted by twhiteheadDid I say that? No, I said I can something I believe is a fact and
So you agree that there is no way to identify whether anything is fact or not?
be wrong. If you want to reject everything, fine with me, why bother
asking a question since no answer will do?
Kelly
24 May 07
Originally posted by KellyJayBut you haven't answered the question. You were asked whether you could know if something is a fact. You said you knew about the 10 dollar bill. Then you admitted that you did not actually know that that was a fact.
Did I say that? No, I said I can something I believe is a fact and
be wrong. If you want to reject everything, fine with me, why bother
asking a question since no answer will do?
Kelly
So are you simply avoiding answering the question? Because there sure isn't a definite answer in any of your posts.
Lets make it easy:
Is there a way to know if something is a fact. Yes or no.
If yes then do you know the way. Yes or no.
If yes are you willing to tell us what it is. Yes or no.
If yes then lets have it.
24 May 07
1 edit
Originally posted by twhiteheadI said I believed it was a fact, I was going to go about my day as if
But you haven't answered the question. You were asked whether you could know if something is a fact. You said you knew about the 10 dollar bill. Then you admitted that you did not actually know that that was a fact.
So are you simply avoiding answering the question? Because there sure isn't a definite answer in any of your posts.
Lets make it easy:
Is ...[text shortened]... es or no.
If yes are you willing to tell us what it is. Yes or no.
If yes then lets have it.
it is a fact, and act upon it as a fact, make my life fit into the idea
that it was a fact. If I found out otherwise, that I was mistaken, than
that would be a reality check upon my life. I did not say I could know
nothing as factual. It is because as you point out means I was acting
upon my faith that it was what I believed it to be.
Kelly
24 May 07
Originally posted by bbarr"Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was made from things that are not visible" (Hebrews 11:1,3).
What part of "certain" don't you understand?
Faith is a means of knowledge--certain knowledge. You misunderstand faith.
24 May 07
Originally posted by epiphinehasAnd you recreate its meaning to suit intangible concepts.
"Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was made from things that are not visible" (Hebrews 11:1,3).
Faith is a means of knowledge--certain knowledge. You misunderstand faith.
24 May 07
Originally posted by epiphinehasDoes not your Hebrews verses mean that faith is 'things hoped for' and 'not seen'; in other words not 'knowledge'?
"Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was made from things that are not visible" (Hebrews 11:1,3).
Faith is a means of knowledge--certain knowledge. You misunderstand faith.
24 May 07
Originally posted by AThousandYoungI perceive therefore I am?
It's self evident. "I" is defined as that which experiences.
My version of Descartes' famous line is "I perceive, therefore I am".
I perceive a rock therefore it exists?
There is no way of knowing that the rock is real/exists through any sensory enquiry, it is a subjective judgment.
As with any interpretation of sensory information.
I sense myself, am aware, I sense I have thoughts, but to say "I am", I exist, is no different from making the claim that the rock I sense exists.
Consciousness is untouchable through rationality. No one person alive or dead has ever said anything meaningful about what it is to perceive. To say "I perceive, therefore I am" means as much as saying "Walls are solid therefore plums taste sweet".
25 May 07
Originally posted by snowinscotlandFaith is the assurance of 'things hoped for' and 'not seen'. Most people misunderstand faith as being mere belief (that is, an opinion without proof), but faith as described biblically is, in contrast to belief, the direct perception of what is 'hoped for' and 'not seen'. And because it is a direct perception of truth, faith is a means of acquiring knowledge: "By faith we understand (know) that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was made from things that are not visible" (Hebrews 11:3).
Does not your Hebrews verses mean that faith is 'things hoped for' and 'not seen'; in other words not 'knowledge'?
25 May 07
Originally posted by epiphinehasNo, you don't understand the notion of certainty. Since you can't rule out the mere possibility that your faith in God is mistaken, you aren't absolutely certain in the deliverances of faith. You may be convinced; you may not be able to imagine being incorrect, but this isn't to be certain in the epistemic sense, which requires having evidence sufficient to guarantee the truth of some belief.
"Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was made from things that are not visible" (Hebrews 11:1,3).
Faith is a means of knowledge--certain knowledge. You misunderstand faith.
25 May 07
Originally posted by epiphinehasIt is consistent with the totaliity of the content of your experiences that those experiences result from some Matrix-style manipulation of your neurology. Hence, there at least a very slight possibility that your "direct perceptions" are merely instances of it seeming to you as though you directly perceive whatever it is you take yourself to be perceiving. Hence you are not certain in an epistemic sense.
Faith is the assurance of 'things hoped for' and 'not seen'. Most people misunderstand faith as being mere belief (that is, an opinion without proof), but faith as described biblically is, in contrast to belief, the direct perception of what is 'hoped for' and 'not seen'. And because it is a direct perception of truth, faith is a means of ...[text shortened]... f God, so that what is seen was made from things that are not visible" (Hebrews 11:3).