22 Apr 14
A thread devoted to cherrypicking. Feel free to list those statements which I make that include cherrypicking [I dont mind at all].
Here is a popular one from the 'once saved always saved' gang.
1 Cor 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
This verse is used by them to prove that ALL Christians will get eternal life. Some will get a great reward and some will get a small reward and some will get 'burned' and will be punished but will still get eternal life. Nobody will lose their eternal life among this group of Christians.
First the context, Paul is writing to the preachers and pastors, ministers ie the leaders of the churches that lead the flock:
1Co 3:4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
1Co 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
1Co 3:6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
Paul is saying that every man will be rewarded for his own labour. Apparently there were divisions among the people about whose preaching got the credit [in terms of Gods reward] for the increase in the numbers of the church.
But here is the part that these OSAS people ignore. Paul was very clear a couple verses down that there are some Christians who will NOT GET ETERNAL LIFE AS GOD WILL DESTROY THEM,..
1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
So the whole story without cherrypicking is:
- Some will get a big reward due to their hard work + eternal life
- some will get a small reward + eternal life
- some will get no reward + eternal life
- some will be destroyed.
All are Christians. All are saints in the Church.
OSAS - another dangerous fallacy and which can find Biblical support only by extensive cherrypicking.
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Originally posted by Rajk999
A thread devoted to cherrypicking. Feel free to list those statements which I make that include cherrypicking [I dont mind at all].
Here is a popular one from the 'once saved always saved' gang.
[i]1 Cor 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every ...[text shortened]... - another dangerous fallacy and which can find Biblical support only by extensive cherrypicking.
This verse is used by them to prove that ALL Christians will get eternal life. Some will get a great reward and some will get a small reward and some will get 'burned' and will be punished but will still get eternal life. Nobody will lose their eternal life among this group of Christians.
First the context, Paul is writing to the preachers and pastors, ministers ie the leaders of the churches that lead the flock:
First the passage about being saved yet so as through fire is not definite enough for us to attach specific details to it.
We do know that whatever Paul means it will be a suffering of loss and not pleasant.
Secondly, the warning applies not just to leaders of the churches, and not the clergy / laity hierarchical structures which you attach to it out of tradition. It applies to every member of the church, which is all believers.
You are imposing your assumptions about the clerical system or a traditional clergy / laity religious organizational practice into the passage.
Yes the chapters does speak about the laborers on God's farm. And we may assume apostles like Paul are intended. Paul says he lays a foundation and other build upon it.
So it is not only the "wise master builder[s]" who lay the local church's foundation (Jesus Christ) that will be examined. Rather every believer in the structure on the foundation building. And that is ALL believers who constitute building.
Elsewhere we are told that the Body of Christ builds up itself in love (Eph. 4:16). So every member of the Body of Christ is a builder. And every participant in the local assembly is a builder on the churches foundation.
Paul's phrase " ... in the measure of each one part, causes the growth of the Body unto the building up of itself in love" proves that all the members of the Body of Christ are builders. And all will be examined as to the quality of the building materials they provide to the Lord's church.
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25 Apr 14
Originally posted by Rajk999
A thread devoted to cherrypicking. Feel free to list those statements which I make that include cherrypicking [I dont mind at all].
Here is a popular one from the 'once saved always saved' gang.
[i]1 Cor 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every ...[text shortened]... - another dangerous fallacy and which can find Biblical support only by extensive cherrypicking.
1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
The 17th verse is a continuation of the explanation of the previous explanations about reward, lose of reward, and being saved yet so as through fire. Since he has already told us that the disciplined ones are saved the destruction as a discipline in verse 17 cannot be eternal punishment.
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Originally posted by sonshipCorrecting typos:1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
The 17th verse is a continuation of the explanation of the previous explanations about reward, lose of reward, and being ...[text shortened]... ones are [b]saved the destruction as a discipline in verse 17 cannot be eternal punishment.[/b]
The 17th verse is a continuation of the explanation of the previous passages about reward, loss of reward, and being saved yet so as through fire. Since he has already told us that the disciplined ones are saved the destruction as a discipline in verse 17 cannot be eternal punishment.
26 Apr 14
Originally posted by Rajk999Everyone who wants to make a point will cherry pick the scriptures they
A thread devoted to cherrypicking. Feel free to list those statements which I make that include cherrypicking [I dont mind at all].
Here is a popular one from the 'once saved always saved' gang.
[i]1 Cor 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every ...[text shortened]... - another dangerous fallacy and which can find Biblical support only by extensive cherrypicking.
believe will help them in their point. You do it all the time! As soon as you
picked the scriptures in your post to prove a point you did it.
The sad thing is yours typically do not edify, they do not build up others,
they basically tear down others.
Why not from time to time do this, I cherry picked just for you!?
Philippians 4:8
Brothers and sisters, think about the things that are good and worthy of praise. Think about the things that are true and honorable and right and pure and beautiful and respected.
Kelly
27 Apr 14
Originally posted by KellyJayIt is true we are to build up our brothers and sisters in the Lord, but understanding the scripture is also important. Even if it means admonishing someone close. Example, Paul did this to Peter in correcting him. I believe it was in Acts.
Everyone who wants to make a point will cherry pick the scriptures they
believe will help them in their point. You do it all the time! As soon as you
picked the scriptures in your post to prove a point you did it.
The sad thing is yours typically do not edify, they do not build up others,
they basically tear down others.
Why not from time to time d ...[text shortened]... ut the things that are true and honorable and right and pure and beautiful and respected.
Kelly
In the concept of understanding scripture, know that it is important to be able to use 2, 3, or more verses to set a point down. In my own typing here, I use scripture constantly, and it may be a single verse. But I also know if I have to, I can go into the scripture and find a few more that will back what I've said origionaly.
28 Apr 14
Originally posted by sonshipNone of your explanations can contradict the clear statement that God will destroy certain Christians whose sins are so grevious that He has decided not to forgive them. The Bible is clear. Maybe you should consider the remote possibility that Christ and the Apostles are greater authorities than you are.
[quote] This verse is used by them to prove that ALL Christians will get eternal life. Some will get a great reward and some will get a small reward and some will get 'burned' and will be punished but will still get eternal life. Nobody will lose their eternal life among this group of Christians.
First the context, Paul is writing to the preachers and pas ...[text shortened]... will be examined as to the quality of the building materials they provide to the Lord's church.
28 Apr 14
Originally posted by PudgenikCorrect. Understanding what gives eternal life is something that many seem to miss. Gods grace gives eternal life. Who gets Gods grace ? Certainly not everyone who says 'Lord Lord !', but those who DO THE WILL OF GOD.
It is true we are to build up our brothers and sisters in the Lord, but understanding the scripture is also important. Even if it means admonishing someone close. Example, Paul did this to Peter in correcting him. I believe it was in Acts.
In the concept of understanding scripture, know that it is important to be able to use 2, 3, or more verses to set a ...[text shortened]... ve to, I can go into the scripture and find a few more that will back what I've said origionaly.
Many here teach and believe these unBiblical doctrines:
- accept Christ with your mouth alone and you are saved
- once you are saved you cannot lose your salvation
- all sins are covered [still dont know what that means]
These are contrary to the substance of the teachings of Christ.
28 Apr 14
Originally posted by KellyJayI would be very happy if you can tell me exactly what you think I am 'tearing down'.
Everyone who wants to make a point will cherry pick the scriptures they
believe will help them in their point. You do it all the time! As soon as you
picked the scriptures in your post to prove a point you did it.
The sad thing is yours typically do not edify, they do not build up others,
they basically tear down others.
Why not from time to time d ...[text shortened]... ut the things that are true and honorable and right and pure and beautiful and respected.
Kelly
28 Apr 14
Originally posted by Rajk999You've done it to me, when you make claims that I ignore or do not accept
I would be very happy if you can tell me exactly what you think I am 'tearing down'.
certain scriptures. Which has never been true when you make those claims.
As I pointed out to you, I don't think I have ever seen you encourage
another here.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayMany here believe these :
You've done it to me, when you make claims that I ignore or do not accept
certain scriptures. Which has never been true when you make those claims.
As I pointed out to you, I don't think I have ever seen you encourage
another here.
Kelly
- accept Christ with your mouth alone and you are saved
- once you are saved you cannot lose your salvation
- all sins are covered [still dont know what that means]
If these are what you accept which I think you said you did [not all but partially], then you do not accept the scriptures which contradict the above doctrines. I pointed out these to you and you did not accept them. Howefer all these doctrines do is to 'ENCOURGE ANOTHER' TO CONTINUE ON WITH SIN. And thats the road to death and destruction.
What I do is simply copy and paste the words of Christ and the Apostles. If that is what you refer to as 'not encouraging another', then so be it.
Im not here to encourge people to continue on with a sinful wordly lifestyle. My aim is to point people to the teachings of Christ. If you dont like what Christ said then Im pretty sure you will get an opportunity to take that up with Him personally .. 🙂
28 Apr 14
Originally posted by Rajk999Christians are those that belong to Christ, not those that mouth the words
Many here believe these :
- accept Christ with your mouth alone and you are saved
- once you are saved you cannot lose your salvation
- all sins are covered [still dont know what that means]
If these are what you accept which I think you said you did [not all but partially], then you do not accept the scriptures which contradict the above doctrines. ...[text shortened]... t said then Im pretty sure you will get an opportunity to take that up with Him personally .. 🙂
in my opinion. They will in the end on judgment day have their names in
the Book of Life. All of them will have all of their sins covered, if you don't
know what that means, what do you know? I don't know what many here
believe, I will not put words in their mouths telling what they believe.
You copy and paste scripture, big deal, a lot of people here do that to make
their points. My desire is to grow closer to Christ each day of my life, and
that does not include allowing sin to remain in my life, I shun it as best I
can. I've not seen anyone you debate here who claims to be a Christian
suggest we should continue on with sin! If it is there, I've not seen it.
You are also doing it again, if I disagree with you I disagree with Christ! I
study God's Word daily, I go it for truth, and you'll never see me say that
if you disagree with me you are disagreeing with God. I love what Christ
says and what He did, His Words are Truth and Life to me. Disagreeing with
you is not disagreeing with Him, any more than disagreeing with me is!
I'd also point out we are to point people to Christ, not just 'teachings'!
Kelly
28 Apr 14
Originally posted by KellyJayRajk999 is obviously not a Christian.
Christians are those that belong to Christ, not those that mouth the words
in my opinion. They will in the end on judgment day have their names in
the Book of Life. All of them will have all of their sins covered, if you don't
know what that means, what do you know? I don't know what many here
believe, I will not put words in their mouths telling what t ...[text shortened]... with me is!
I'd also point out we are to point people to Christ, not just 'teachings'!
Kelly