Charlie Hebdo

Originally posted by Great King Rat
I have stated that the satire - or insults - should be harsher. I have also stated it should be more frequent. You've not talked about that second point, only the first. How do you feel about that?

I support their right to do it. I am not impressed with what they publish. I think the nature of their interest in freedom of speech is quite different from mine.

Originally posted by Great King Rat
I fail to see how the fact that CH may or may not be satirizing Jews means they might therefore be aiming to insult Muslims. As far as the case of the fired cartoonist goes: I have googled this earlier and have found it difficult to judge it. From what I have found, the cartoonist was an outspoken anti-sematic who had said some rather nasty things abo ...[text shortened]... they should be wiped of the earth. I paraphrase, I’d have to google it to find the exact quotes.

Would you support that satirist's freedom of speech to say nasty things about the Jews? Do you think CH would be an even better 'campaigner' for freedom of speech if it also insulted Jews?

Originally posted by Great King Rat
The skins should be thickened of those that are currently murdering, but also of those that are currently “deeply offended”. One can find something insulting, while simultaneously shrugging and saying “whatever”. The world can be an offending place, get used to it.

But isn't this what has happened and isn't it what you want? Hundreds and hundreds of millions of Muslims have been deeply offended and have, for all intents and purposes, shrugged and said whatever and done nothing. They appear to be used to it. They've taken the "satire" on the chin and they've done nothing. You think the best course of action now is to keep clocking these hundreds and hundreds of millions of Muslims on the chin over and over again, harder and harder? Why?

Originally posted by Great King Rat
Similar question to you as I asked FMF: do you think satire has a role to play in society?

Absolutely.

Originally posted by Suzianne
I've been observing this phenomenon in the media since the killings in Paris hit the airwaves. There seems to be mainly one camp of thought on this, and it has the well-meaning umbrella of "freedom of speech" especially among journalists. I, for one, do believe in "freedom of speech", since I am American and this is spelled out in our First Amendment to t ...[text shortened]... ehind a magazine who has made it their business to make fun of others because of their religion.

Where was the Pope do you reckon when someone put a crucifix in a jar of urine and called it art? Where was the Pope when the Life of Brian was made do you reckon?

Let's face some facts here Suzy, the Pope came out and said what he said ONLY because Muslims were offended and killed some people because of it. The only reason he made that little speech was because he knows how blood thirsty these people are and that they will continue to kill like this. This is the EXACT reaction that the terrorist want, but do not deserve.

Well guess what, they will continue to kill anyway Suzy because they are filled with hate. If you are looking to be insulted or treated unjustly, you need not go to far to find it.

This is why the Pop's speech was an epic fail. Imagine Jesus being lectured by the Pope about not offending people, especially the religious leaders of his day. Imagine Jesus walking into the Vatican and calling them out as a brood of vipers and hypocrites who are more interested in being politically correct than speaking what they know to be the truth.

Well guess what, Whodey will speak the truth the say he sees it and I could care less what others think about it. But you and the Pope can breath a sigh of relief with me because I have no intention of lopping off someone's head or shooting anyone or blowing something up when others insult me for what they have to say about me Suzy. In other words, no one like the Pope is going to care about people who insult me or who may blaspheme what I believe in.

Originally posted by whodey
In other words, no one like the Pope is going to care about people who insult me or who may blaspheme what I believe in.

Do you fully support the right of people to insult you and to blaspheme what you believe in?

Originally posted by whodey
...you and the Pope can breath a sigh of relief with me because I have no intention of lopping off someone's head or shooting anyone or blowing something up when others insult me for what they have to say about me Suzy.

Do you see the Pope's words as to some degree endorsing or excusing the murder of the people at CH?

I was under the impression that the Pope roundly condemns "lopping off someone's head or shooting anyone or blowing something up" in response to insult, or for any reason, and that the freedom in the West to criticize terrorists and their mass murders is not under threat or even really dilluted to any degree whatsoever. I may not agree with what the Pope said, but I wonder what it is exactly you are accusing him of.

Originally posted by whodey
Where was the Pope do you reckon when someone put a crucifix in a jar of urine and called it art? Where was the Pope when the Life of Brian was made do you reckon?

What are you on about? As I recall, both were condemned in forthright terms by the Vatican.

Originally posted by FMF
Do you see the Pope's words as to some degree endorsing or excusing the murder of the people at CH?

I was under the impression that the Pope roundly condemns "lopping off someone's head or shooting anyone or blowing something up" in response to insult, or for any reason, and that the freedom in the West to criticize terrorists and their mass murders is not un ...[text shortened]... may not agree with what the Pope said, but I wonder what it is exactly you are accusing him of.

The Pope is making a plea for people to censor themselves. Is this not what the terrorists are after? If not, then what are they after?

Originally posted by FMF
What are you on about? As I recall, both were condemned in forthright terms by the Vatican.

Of course, of course, he is expected to say this.

Just more PC poo.

Originally posted by FMF
Do you fully support the right of people to insult you and to blaspheme what you believe in?

Everyone thinks that their own poo does not stink. Well guess what, it does even though not everyone will be truthful about it.

Then there are those whose poo stinks so bad they try to project it on you.

Either way, no one should die because of it.

Originally posted by whodey
Everyone thinks that their own poo does not stink. Well guess what, it does even though not everyone will be truthful about it.

Then there are those whose poo stinks so bad they try to project it on you.

Either way, no one should die because of it.

My question was: Do you fully support the right of people to insult you and to blaspheme what you believe in?

Originally posted by whodey
Of course, of course, he is expected to say this.

Just more PC poo.

So if the Vatican did in fact condemn those anti-Christian exercises of free speech, what point are you trying to make when you ask:"Where was the Pope do you reckon when someone put a crucifix in a jar of urine and called it art? Where was the Pope when the Life of Brian was made do you reckon?"

Originally posted by whodey
The Pope is making a plea for people to censor themselves. Is this not what the terrorists are after? If not, then what are they after?

I think they were meting out punishment for fanatical religious reasons. It's a good thing that Christians, these days, rarely murder people for religious reasons. I think what the Vatican has said about people censoring themselves when it comes to religious sensitivities is the same for all religions, including its own. They have also condemned the atrocity in Paris unequivocally. Do you think "a plea for people to censor themselves" in this case is an affront to the freedom of speech or a valid contribution to the debate?

Originally posted by whodey
Then there are those whose poo stinks so bad they try to project it on you.

Do you think the creators of Piss Christ and Life of Brian should have censored themselves or do you welcome their work as valid contributions to and reaffirmations of the principle of freedom of speech?