@fmf said
Two perceptions being different from each other does not make either of them a "lie".

When you use words that are untrue, that DOES make it a lie.

@secondson said
Ok, so if Jesus really did rise from the dead, then your perceptions about Christianity are all wrong.

You have replaced the word "lie" with the word "wrong". I see what you did there.

@fmf said
I am in my sixth decade of being around Christians.

And you still aren't listening.

@suzianne said
When you use words that are untrue, that DOES make it a lie.

I haven't "lied" about anything.

@fmf said
Not sure what you are on about. This is a debate and discussion forum. All that is going on here is an eclectic bunch of people sharing their perceptions and opinions.

Yes, it's not a lying forum.

@fmf said
I haven't "lied" about anything.

Tell me again what I "welcome".

@suzianne said
And you still aren't listening.

I've been listening well enough here, for example, for many years: plenty of people hoping for the 'end times', plenty of sweeping misanthropic beliefs about humanity, plenty of hopelessness about the state of the world. My listening skills are just fine.

@suzianne said
Tell me again what I "welcome".

The 'end times'. We have had at least two long conversations about it. In one of them, you predicted it would happen in your lifetime. When confronted about that in a subsequent conversation you estimated it would be within 50 years. What is your view now?

@fmf said
No, not at all. I am an atheist. I don't believe there is a "God of the Bible" with hands for wringing and legs for pacing. I am talking about those Christians whose religious beliefs fuel despair and misanthropic feelings about their fellow humans and the state of the world.

That's right, you don't believe there is a God, and you spend your days arguing against those who do.

Raises some questions.

@fmf said
You have replaced the word "lie" with the word "wrong". I see what you did there.

You have replaced what could have been a coherent discussion with a deflection.

@secondson said
You have replaced what could have been a coherent discussion with a deflection.

You characterized what I'd said as a "lie" but it wasn't.

What definition of the word "deflection" are you suing?

@secondson said
That's right, you don't believe there is a God, and you spend your days arguing against those who do.

I debate and discuss the moral implications of what they say and the assertions they make about the reality in which I live.

@secondson said
You're dreaming. Considering that most Christians haven't a clue about what the Bible teaches on most ideas and concepts relative to this life and the world we live in it's no wonder that after you've talked to some of them you came away with such a skewed perspective.

You probably think the God of the the Bible is up there in heaven wringing His hands, pacing back and forth and exclaiming His bewilderment and consternation over the state of human affairs.

The benefit of increases atheism in our age is that we will shed many who are false Christians and have zero commitment to it while simultaneously making our own believers stronger and more dedicated.

@secondson said
You have replaced what could have been a coherent discussion with a deflection.

And this is routinely what he means when he suggests that he debates important issues.

He talks about exactly what he wants without actually going into depth in any way, and he fights to change the topic back to his talking points.

@philokalia said
The benefit of increases atheism in our age is that we will shed many who are false Christians and have zero commitment to it while simultaneously making our own believers stronger and more dedicated.

Does 'Biblically supported' and 'faith-infused' despondency and defeatism about the state of the world and an embrace of, and even impatience for, the 'end times' [please don't pretend you haven't come across it] a hallmark of "false Christians", in your view?