Can you obey someone you have not met?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Paul said that there is another part - that of living righteously and refraining from sin.
Failure to do that means that there will be no eternal life.

Some will succeed and get into the Kingdom of God
Some will not and they will be punished.

Is the sincerity and the degree of success of the "refraining from sin" the subject of the "judgement" that we are told is to come?

Originally posted by FMF
Is the sincerity and the degree of success of the "refraining from sin" the subject of the "judgement" that we are told is to come?

Certainly is. All people will face that, even Paul and the Apostles.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Certainly is. All people will face that, even Paul and the Apostles.

So basically you are saying we are saved by our works and our own efforts?

Originally posted by FMF
You conceded that we cannot know if any self-identified Christian's faith in Christ is genuine or real until they die having not lost that faith. So, it follows that no self-identified Christian can know that they are "saved" during their lifetime.

In your mind, if I can't know what another Christians relationship with God is it follows logically that I can't know my own?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Simple:

All of mankind is saved by grace
Not all are Christs sheep.

Where does the Bible say that all of mankind is saved by grace?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
So basically you are saying we are saved by our works and our own efforts?

I never use those expressions, because it is the source of confusion and false doctrine, which you are demonstrating here.

Again:

- Christ died for the sins of the world
- He died to pay of the original sin of Adam which is also called sin in the flesh and transferred to all of Adams descendants
- God sending His son to so die is called saved by Grace. Nobody had to work for that sacrifice and it is not through anyone's righteousness that God decided to send Christ to die.
- Saved by Grace is not an automatic right of entry into the Kingdom of God.
- Christ and Apostles were unanimous about the life of righteousness that is required of those who enter the Kingdom of God.

Your failure to understand the whole process and to simply claim that you are saved by grace [per Ephesians 2] and believing thats all that is required [ignoring Paul in Ephesions 5] is your downfall.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Where does the Bible say that all of mankind is saved by grace?

Its all over the writings of the Apostles. You just ignore it:

Rom_5:18  Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Tit 2:11  For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
In your mind, if I can't know what another Christians relationship with God is it follows logically that I can't know my own?

You either conceded that we cannot know if any self-identified Christian's faith in Christ is genuine or real until they die having not lost that faith, or you did not. If you now say you did not, we can perhaps go and dig up the conversation.

aOriginally posted by Rajk999
Its all over the writings of the Apostles. You just ignore it:

Rom_5:18  Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Tit 2:11  For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God didn't send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him. He who believes in him is not judged. He who doesn't believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God" (John 3:16-18).

Surely 'all men' refers to those all those that believe.

Originally posted by FMF
You either conceded that we cannot know if any self-identified Christian's faith in Christ is genuine or real until they die having not lost that faith, or you did not. If you now say you did not, we can perhaps go and dig up the conversation.

If i cannot know what someone else's relationship with God is it doesn't mean that I can't know what my own relationship with God is. I'm surprised you can't fathom that.

Originally posted by Rajk999
I never use those expressions, because it is the source of confusion and false doctrine, which you are demonstrating here.

Again:

- Christ died for the sins of the world
- He died to pay of the original sin of Adam which is also called sin in the flesh and transferred to all of Adams descendants
- God sending His son to so die is called saved by Grac ...[text shortened]... ans 2] and believing thats all that is required [ignoring Paul in Ephesions 5] is your downfall.

Where does the Bible say that God sending his son to die is called 'saved by grace'?

Those who believe are saved by grace, but those who do not believe are judged.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Simple:

All of mankind is saved by grace
Not all are Christs sheep.

So the atheist that has read the Bible and rejected Jesus as Lord, is also saved by grace even if they never repent and believe the gospel?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
In your mind, if I can't know what another Christians relationship with God is it follows logically that I can't know my own?

This is a red herring.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
If i cannot know what someone else's relationship with God is it doesn't mean that I can't know what my own relationship with God is. I'm surprised you can't fathom that.

This is another red herring.