Calling out Sonship on the trinity and salvation

@sonship said
@KellyJay


Watched for a long time. He is very helpful on the Trinity.

He without a doubt knows the Word, I would suggest l this one. He is talking about receiving God's mercy. Part of his talk is about several Nazi war criminals coming to Christ before they were killed for their war crimes, powerful stull.

YouTube

@sonship said
@divegeester

Anyone interested to see what Dive dodges, read the thread from the top about 60% through.

Sonship , why won’t you answer the questions being put to you about your churche’s policy on the trinity?

@sonship
Here is a copy/paste from the statement of beliefs from the website of your own church:

”In order to be saved, one must have a living faith in the Person and work of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Every genuinely saved one has what the Bible calls the “common faith” (Titus 1:4), which includes what we must believe in order to be saved: we must believe that the Bible is the complete divine revelation wholly inspired by God; that there is a unique Triune God, the Father, the Son, and the Spirit; that Jesus Christ is the Son of God incarnated to be a man; that Christ died on the cross for our sins, shedding His blood for our redemption; that on the third day He was bodily raised from the dead; that He has been exalted to the right hand of God and made the Lord of all; and that He is coming again for His own and to set up His kingdom on earth.”

https://www.localchurches.org/beliefs/salvation/

Summation: I don’t believe in the trinity doctrine and therefore you cannot classify me as Christian, and therefore I will burn in Hell with the rest Of the unbelievers.

Sonship, is this summation by me correct or not?

Sonship...?

@sonship
Here is a copy/paste from the statement of beliefs from the website of your own church:

”In order to be saved, one must have a living faith in the Person and work of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Every genuinely saved one has what the Bible calls the “common faith” (Titus 1:4), which includes what we must believe in order to be saved: we must believe that the Bible is the complete divine revelation wholly inspired by God; that there is a unique Triune God, the Father, the Son, and the Spirit; that Jesus Christ is the Son of God incarnated to be a man; that Christ died on the cross for our sins, shedding His blood for our redemption; that on the third day He was bodily raised from the dead; that He has been exalted to the right hand of God and made the Lord of all; and that He is coming again for His own and to set up His kingdom on earth.”

https://www.localchurches.org/beliefs/salvation/

Summation: I don’t believe in the trinity doctrine and therefore according to your church stamens of belief you cannot classify me as “Christian”, and therefore I will burn in Hell with the rest of the unbelievers.

Sonship, is this summation by me correct or not?

This reply is not for Divegeester. (Except to advise him to direct his question to the authors of the booklet in question ALSO).

I mean if he really cares, why not ?

Anyone confused may benefit from my comments if they have not already read considerably into this thread.

Here is a copy/paste from the statement of beliefs from the website of your own church:

The phrase "your own church" presupposes that sonship's church is not universal to include all believers in Christ.

The local churches stand on the ground of the universal church represented in various localities as local churches designated by locality names. We continue the pattern established in the New Testament.

The only division there should be in the church universal on earth is one of geography.
Now Divegeester quotes a book.

”In order to be saved, one must have a living faith in the Person and work of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

That is just echoing the New Testament in many places.

I would point out that in the New Testament saved has more than one connotation.

Saved may be a salvation of the human spirit in being regenerated.
Saved may also be further sanctification and transformation in the soul.
Saved also may indicate the climax of being transfigured in the physical body in resurection and glorification.

So in order to be saved does not only mean eternal redemption. I WAS saved. I am BEING saved. I WILL be saved in the future.

Notice that Divegeester will attempt to translate the phrase in order to be saved to in order to be a Christian.

All Christians will EVENTUALLY be fully saved in all aspects. All Christians are not at ONE TIME fully saved in all aspects.

I concur with the belief in the living Person of Christ to be saved in all aspects eventually.

Every genuinely saved one has what the Bible calls the “common faith” (Titus 1:4), which includes what we must believe in order to be saved:

I am genuinly saved by redemption in having received the gift of eternal life. I am not yet genuinly saved in the full sanctification and transformation of my soul. I am also not yet fully saved in the transfiguration of my body.

And because the new heaven and new earth have not yet arrived I am not yet fully saved in the environment of the new universe.

But let's go along with just "saved" in the sense of forgiven and having received eternal redemption.

Every person saved in this sense probably has no problem in admitting God and His Son. They know there is some kind of distinction between God without humanity and God being incarnated. Without being conversant on doctrinal discussions of the nature of God, most likely they have a deep understanding that somehow by touching Jesus Christ Who was a man (and still is) they have indeed touched God.

I see no reason to argue against that.

we must believe that the Bible is the complete divine revelation wholly inspired by God; that there is a unique Triune God, the Father, the Son, and the Spirit; that Jesus Christ is the Son of God incarnated to be a man; that Christ died on the cross for our sins, shedding His blood for our redemption; that on the third day He was bodily raised from the dead; that He has been exalted to the right hand of God and made the Lord of all; and that He is coming again for His own and to set up His kingdom on earth.”

I have no problem with that. I dont think it is realistically assumed by the writers that on the first day or night of one coming to Christ, they are completely clear about all these matters.

https://www.localchurches.org/beliefs/salvation/

Summation: I don’t believe in the trinity doctrine and therefore according to your church stamens of belief you cannot classify me as “Christian”, and therefore I will burn in Hell with the rest of the unbelievers.

Examine this critic carefully and youll discover that he wont specify what he means by trinity doctrine. It is left rather vague.

Examine him further and you'll see that though he hates to use the word "trinity" he still talks about the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Posters have pointed out that he speaks of the three of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit but has some kind of maverick reaction that feels humiliated to be identified with the word "Trinity".

From what I have been able to see he thinks the Trinity means three separate Gods. I never argue about three separate Gods though I have no problem with the properly applied phrase "Trinity"

Sonship, is this summation by me correct or not?

No. In my opinion no. Write the authors of the book and ask them. I don't know what you mean by you dont believe in the Trinity. Sounds like some doctrinal phraseology issue you have.

You always dodge me pointing out the divine We and the divine Us in the Bible referring to the Father and the Son. A saved person may have fallen into the error of Modalism or Tritheism - two opposite extremes of the Bibles revelation of one God - Father - Son - Holy Spirit.

And DIvegeester has been [edited] shown that further in the very SAME publication the emphasis on Romans 10:9,10 makes clear the simplicity of becoming a saved person.

Same book under the heading Concerning Salvation we read -

In order to be saved, one must have a living contact with Jesus Christ. Therefore, in bringing unbelievers to salvation, we emphasize prayer and calling on the name of the Lord. According to Romans 10:9 and 10, if a man is to be saved, he must believe in his heart and confess with his mouth.

Once a person has been saved, he may have both the assurance of salvation and the security of salvation. Once we are saved, we are saved forever.

This is what I have always emphasized concerning being saved in the initial sense of eternal redemption.

Most of what you read in this post is repetition of what I have written above. Some points at the beginning I may have not expressed in this thread before [edited].

Now when Divegeester comes back and insists I have not answered and portrays me as sectarian, ask yourself -

I listed names of congregations of local churches I have met with for decades that their doctrinal statements be examined. Diveteester seems ashamed to confess that this or that group with an ADDRESS and PHONE number and WEBSITE he identified with.

Which of us gives more of the impression of EXCLUSIVITY and SECTARIAN non-accceptance of others? I think he does.

As the above post is apparently for anyone except for me... can anyone tell me if sonship has unequivocally answered my question?

Sonship I reject the trinity doctrine and I reject what your church leadership says about it in their state to of belief as laid out in my OP.

Is it possible for me to hold these beliefs and still be a born again Christian or not. Yes, or no?

Simple question.

@divegeester

Sonship I reject the trinity doctrine ...

Define the trinity doctrine that you reject.

@sonship said
@divegeester

Sonship I reject the trinity doctrine ...

Define the trinity doctrine that you reject.

What is says on your church’s statement of belief.

Stop dodging, it’s embarrassing .

@divegeester said
Sonship I reject the trinity doctrine and I reject what your church leadership says about it in their state to of belief as laid out in my OP.

Is it possible for me to hold these beliefs and still be a born again Christian or not. Yes, or no?

Simple question.

You reject the trinity?

I didn't know you went that far.

That combined with the rejection of hell... This is not Christianity.

@philokalia said
You reject the trinity?

I didn't know you went that far.

I’ve been discussing this point for 10 years. As I’ve been pointing out, you don’t seem to know what goes on in this forum, it’s revealing of your weak comprehension ability.

@philokalia said
You reject the trinity?

I didn't know you went that far.

That combined with the rejection of hell... This is not Christianity.

If you watch his posts, its almost never a topic, its a person, or something about that person.

@kellyjay said
If you watch his posts, its almost never a topic, its a person, or something about that person.

And what is this post by you then? (It’s a post about a person not a topic)

Still ignoring me? (Yes because I’m a baby.)

Care to comment on the question in the OP as if it was put to yourself? (No because I’m gutless and scared I might disagree with sonship)

@philokalia said
You reject the trinity?
I didn't know you went that far.
That combined with the rejection of hell... This is not Christianity.

What is it then?