08 Nov 20
@rajk999 saidBlurt alert!
Of course God is partial [any Christian who cannot see that is a damn fool], but in sending Jesus, the partiality changed focus. Rather than being partial to a group of people, the Jews formerly, now God and Jesus has stated clearly the partiality and the rewards and the blessings and eternal life goes to the righteous. The evil are destroyed.
God is partial? The Bible says "...God is no respecter of persons".
It's obvious what that means, and it's obvious you don't know.
God loves all men equally with a love unequaled by any.
08 Nov 20
@secondson saidDive is worried about the damned. Among that group are Christians who fail to do good works which you ridicule and call works salvation.
@divegeester
Please do not take offense, but WHY DO YOU TORTURE YOURSELF about the fate of the damned?
In my opinion you have way over exaggerated the issue of hell and what that means.
I know for a fact, because the Bible says so, that the dead will stand before God to be judged.
Revelation 20:11-15
And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, ...[text shortened]... be. But I do think it is reduced to a worm, without feeling or the ability to sense anything at all.
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. (Matthew 25:41-46 KJV)
08 Nov 20
@secondson saidFind this an odd question.
@divegeester
Please do not take offense, but WHY DO YOU TORTURE YOURSELF about the fate of the damned?
If what you believe is true, why aren't 'you' torturing yourself over the fate of the damned? Surely some of those damned are people you've cared about and loved?
08 Nov 20
@secondson saidThus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. (1 Samuel 15:2-3 KJV)
Blurt alert!
God is partial? The Bible says "...God is no respecter of persons".
It's obvious what that means, and it's obvious you don't know.
God loves all men equally with a love unequaled by any.
08 Nov 20
@rajk999 saidNo I’m not at all.
Dive is worried about the damned.
I fail to understand why I’m not making myself clear.
08 Nov 20
@secondson saidThat isn’t what “predestined” means.
This is the kicker: "predestinate" does not mean God chose who would be saved and who would be lost.
What you are taking about is called “foreknowledge”
08 Nov 20
@ghost-of-a-duke saidWhat I believe is true.
Find this an odd question.
If what you believe is true, why aren't 'you' torturing yourself over the fate of the damned?
I believe you have misconstrued the nature of the question.
08 Nov 20
1 edit
@secondson saidThat is the starting point of most people. It gets us nowhere.
What I believe is true.
If I believed the damned faced eternal torment, and that loved ones fell into that category, then I would certainly be preoccupied by their fate.
What you believe is what you believe. It doesn't put you in a position to make truth claims. (No more than anybody else anyway).
08 Nov 20
1 edit
@divegeester saidRead the verse.
That isn’t what “predestined” means.
What you are taking about is called “foreknowledge”
Romans 8:29
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
God foreknew those that would believe, then did God predestinate us to be conformed.
Predestinate does not mean God chose some to be saved and others lost. That concept goes against logic and the nature of God. That's not what it means. Think about it.
That's how the neoCalvinists think because they misinterpret the verses relative to God's foreknowledge.
God foreknew, then predestinated.
08 Nov 20
@ghost-of-a-duke saidWhat I believe is true.
That is the starting point of most people. It gets us nowhere.
If I believed the damned faced eternal torment, and that loved ones fell into that category, then I would certainly be preoccupied by their fate.
What you believe is what you believe. It doesn't put you in a position to make truth claims. (No more than anybody else anyway).
What else do you expect me to say after you said "if what you believe is true?"
I don't think you need to over emphasize the point. It gets us nowhere.
"It doesn't put you in a position to make truth claims."
Then don't tell me there's no God.
"If I believed the damned faced eternal torment, and that loved ones fell into that category, then I would certainly be preoccupied by their fate."
A strange way to frame a point. I am "preoccupied", I'm just not "tortured" over it.
It would give me no greater pleasure than to see Ghost of a Duke counted amongst the beloved, but it's not my choice.
I'm not going to torture myself thinking about the consequences. The ball is in your court.
08 Nov 20
@divegeester saidI understand what you're saying. You're clear to me.
I fail to understand why I’m not making myself clear.
But I think you don't understand what I'm trying to be clear about.
Have you ever, I know you have, been talking to somebody and telling them again and again something you know is true, and they keep arguing with you, but then finally the light comes on and they look at you and say "oh, now I get it"?
Foreknowledge and predestination are not one and the same thing.
08 Nov 20
@divegeester saidRajk hears his own voice only.
No I’m not at all.
I fail to understand why I’m not making myself clear.
08 Nov 20
@secondson saidYes, I believe that is what I said.
Foreknowledge and predestination are not one and the same thing.
08 Nov 20
3 edits
@divegeester said
Yes, I believe that is what I said.
@secondson said This is the kicker: "predestinate" does not mean God chose who would be saved and who would be lost.
@divegester said
That isn’t what “predestined” means.
What you are taking about is called “foreknowledge”
Please clarify. Because right now I don't think we're communicating very well.
@secondson saidIn your sentence where you say “this is the kicker” you are describing foreknowledge not predestination. But you are using this “kicker” as a rebuttal against what I said WAS predestination. In other words your “kicker” is a non sequitur, it does not follow what I said.@secondson said This is the kicker: "predestinate" does not mean God chose who would be saved and who would be lost.@divegester said
That isn’t what “predestined” means.
What you are taking about is called “foreknowledge”
Please clarify. Because right now I don't think we're communicating very well.
Foreknowledge is knowing who will be saved
Predestination is deciding who will be saved.