Argumentum ad martyrdom

@sonship said
No, I never argued "Everyone who DIES for a cause, must have died for a cause which is the truth."

Who are you quoting here? You have put words between quotation marks.

@sonship said
So, we have here from you that people dying for a cause is protection for the sinner in knowing that Argumentum ad Martyrdom fortifies their unrepentance against Jesus Christ.

No, I have said no such thing. You are making this up.

I have simply asked about whether someone's willingness to die for their belief is evidence of the truth of what they believed.

whodey used Argumentum ad martyrdom in this way yesterday and I thought it might make for an interesting thread?

"Protection for the sinner"?

"Fortifies their unrepentance"?

What on earth are you on about?

@divegeester

Perhaps in the same place you keep your joy when you are accusing people of being heretics, of spreading faeces and when you are discussing how you justify the eternal torture of billions of people for thought crimes.

Okay, one more time.

The harshest things I have written on this Forum were always at PROVOCATION of a extremely insulting nature towards me first.

Go back into the archives as far as you want. Verify it.

Check the "rather be dead".
Check the "two bit heretic".
Check the "dog food, feces" comments.

In every instance what preceded them from some nutcase poster who THINKS he can say whatever he wants and get no blow back in kind.

I never initiated harsh insulting words.
I told some who gave out insulting words the frank evaluation of their own precarious position.

And that included you and anyone else who thinks what they say is ALWAYS in bounds of decency but have a big fat glass jaw.

At least now I have developed a warning "I am about to get rude with you. "

, of spreading faeces and when you are discussing how you justify the eternal torture of billions of people for thought crimes.

FMF, your two pronged strategy is not missed.

IF THIS doesn't stick to the wall, then maybe THAT will.

Feces or Billions tortured.

@sonship said
The harshest things I have written on this Forum were always at PROVOCATION of a extremely insulting nature towards me first.

I think this self-justification is untrue.

FMF,

Do you think anywhere in the world someone is doing something that they should not be doing?

Yes?
No?

@sonship said
Feces or Billions tortured.

There is no "animal excrement" aspect to my ideas or my beliefs. But the idea of billions of people being tortured is the very core, the very moral essence, of your beliefs.

@sonship said
Do you think anywhere in the world someone is doing something that they should not be doing?

If you can link this to argumentum ad martyrdom, I'll take a shot at giving an answer.

@FMF

There is no "animal excrement" aspect to my ideas or my beliefs. But the idea of billions of people being tortured is the very core, the very moral essence, of your beliefs.

The essence of my belief is salvation through Christ.

Go through the Bible and compare how many verses you have on being saved, salvation, redemption, with your torture for thought crimes accusation.

More than 100 time as much emphasis in my Bible of salvation, forgiveness, redemption in God's salvation.

Your inordinate self love explodes the "essence" of the Bible in YOUR MIND to think the central subject is that you don't get away with rejecting God forever.

He is warning us - we're not going to enjoy that state.

Maybe you'd rather God LIE and tell you that you are going to enjoy everlasting enmity against God.

And He told us so that it is impossible to misunderstand.
But work on misunderstanding you can.

@sonship said
The essence of my belief is through Christ.

The essence of my belief is salvation through Christ. 

No it isn't. You have described eternal torture of non-believers as "the ultimate morality" and "perfect justice". You have pointedly never referred to "salvation" as eithet of these things. Therefore, it is the angry vengeful torture of non-believers which - with its "perfect" and "ultimate" nature - that lies at the very heart of your ideology and it is your message for billions of non-Christians like me.

@fmf said
The essence of my belief is salvation through Christ. 

No it isn't. You have described eternal torture of non-believers as "the ultimate morality" and "perfect justice". You have pointedly never referred to "salvation" as eithet of these things. Therefore, it is the angry vengeful torture of non-believers which - with its "perfect" and "ultimate" nature - that lies at the very heart of your ideology and it is your message for billions of non-Christians like me.

So you think it makes more sense that God would sacrifice his own Son on the cross to save us from nothing at all?

@dj2becker said
So you think it makes more sense that God would sacrifice his own Son on the cross to save us from nothing at all?

Christ died so that ALL who believe [in his teachings], can have eternal life.
Proof that one believes in his teachings is by the following of His commandments

@suzianne said
Yes, but the pilots need not have believed it to be so.

Perhaps they felt they were giving their lives for what they believed was a greater good, their country, and to help ensure its survival. Perhaps they were giving their lives for their fellow Japanese, no "emperor god" needed. Did everyone who gave their lives in every battle ever fought believe their leader was a god? Demonstrably not.

Exactly. Different people have different motivations.

It's like the old "muslim martyrs get 72 virgins in heaven" trope. The 9/11 hijackers went to a strip club beforehand. Clearly, they didn't mind being around women who weren't virgins.

@rajk999 said
Christ died so that ALL who believe [in his teachings], can have eternal life.
Proof that one believes in his teachings is by the following of His commandments

Following his commands is also proof that you believe in Him!

@FMF

No it isn't. You have described eternal torture of non-believers as "the ultimate morality" and "perfect justice". You have pointedly never referred to "salvation" as eithet of these things. Therefore, it is the angry vengeful torture of non-believers which - with its "perfect" and "ultimate" nature - that lies at the very heart of your ideology and it is your message for billions of non-Christians like me.

That is what YOU are most impressed with. That is not the center of the gospel I announce.

That fact that you cannot be against God for eternity robs you of your happiness. But you CAN be against God for eternity.

He's just warned you that it won't be enjoyable.
That is the FACT that you blame ME for making the center of the Gospel.

I have written much more about being conformed to the image of Christ and the building of the New Jerusalem as the mingling of God and man. Much, much more.

All of that goes over your head and all you grasp is "He's going to torture me."