Argumentum ad martyrdom

Did Japanese kamikaze pilots sacrifice themselves because the Emperor of Japan actually was a god and the pilots knew for a fact that it was true, or does it only mean they believed it to be so?

@fmf said
Did Japanese kamikaze pilots sacrifice themselves because the Emperor of Japan actually was a god and the pilots knew for a fact that it was true, or does it only mean they believed it to be so?

We know for a fact that the Emperor was not a god because he was a human being, therefore the pilots could only have believed it to be so.

@fmf said
Did Japanese kamikaze pilots sacrifice themselves because the Emperor of Japan actually was a god and the pilots knew for a fact that it was true, or does it only mean they believed it to be so?

None of the pilots claimed that he had risen from the dead or had healed the sick to demonstrate his divinity.

@divegeester said
We know for a fact that the Emperor was not a god because he was a human being, therefore the pilots could only have believed it to be so.

So the pilots' willingness to die for their belief is not evidence of the truth of what they believed, in your view?

@fmf said
So the pilots' willingness to die for their belief is not evidence of the truth of what they believed, in your view?

I would agree with that, yes.

@divegeester said
I would agree with that, yes.

Can you think of any example or scenario in which someone's willingness to die for their belief would be evidence of the truth of what they believed?

@fmf said
Can you think of any example or scenario in which someone's willingness to die for their belief would be evidence of the truth of what they believed?

I cannot. Certainly not in the context of “evidence” being proof.

@divegeester said
We know for a fact that the Emperor was not a god because he was a human being, therefore the pilots could only have believed it to be so.

Yes, but the pilots need not have believed it to be so.

Perhaps they felt they were giving their lives for what they believed was a greater good, their country, and to help ensure its survival. Perhaps they were giving their lives for their fellow Japanese, no "emperor god" needed. Did everyone who gave their lives in every battle ever fought believe their leader was a god? Demonstrably not.

@suzianne said
Yes, but the pilots need not have believed it to be so.

Perhaps they felt they were giving their lives for what they believed was a greater good, their country, and to help ensure its survival. Perhaps they were giving their lives for their fellow Japanese, no "emperor god" needed. Did everyone who gave their lives in every battle ever fought believe their leader was a god? Demonstrably not.

The OP is about Japanese kamikaze pilots who sacrificed themselves because they believed the Emperor of Japan was a god and it isn't about those who did not. Sorry for not being clear.

@FMF

As you develop this topic where should we look for the element of joy in your underlying opinion here?

@sonship said
@FMF

As you develop this topic where should we look for the element of joy in your underlying opinion here?

Do you think Japanese kamikaze pilots sacrificing themselves because they believed the Emperor of Japan was a god proved anything about their Emperor? An answer from you would be interesting because you have been inclined to use argumentum ad martyrdom on numerous occasions.

@FMF

Let me address the essential stupidity of your reasoning.

Number one you'd have to prove to me I ever used Argumentim ad martyrdom as proof of truth.

I don't think I ever did.
I do not argue that because a man Jesus died then what He said and stood for is necessarily logically TRUE, if that is what you mean.

It is stupid to say the kind of Person Jesus was should not be considered accumulating evidence to the commitment He had to what He believed. That includes His voluntary death and willingness to be forsaken by His Father as a sin offering.

No, I never argued "Everyone who DIES for a cause, must have died for a cause which is the truth."

Martyrdom can be considered.
With Christ more important is the resurrection perhaps, that He was VINDICATED as authentic by the miracle of coming back from the dead.

So, we have here from you that people dying for a cause is protection for the sinner in knowing that Argumentum ad Martyrdom fortifies their unrepentance against Jesus Christ.

Just one more handy rationale to assure yourself you need not take the Son of God seriously.

And I'm suppose to want to have such a reasoning head as that ? I'll pass.

@suzianne said
Yes, but the pilots need not have believed it to be so.

Perhaps they felt they were giving their lives for what they believed was a greater good, their country, and to help ensure its survival. Perhaps they were giving their lives for their fellow Japanese, no "emperor god" needed. Did everyone who gave their lives in every battle ever fought believe their leader was a god? Demonstrably not.

Little of your post is connected to the actual question in the OP or my reply to it.

@sonship said
@FMF

As you develop this topic where should we look for the element of joy in your underlying opinion here?

Perhaps in the same place you keep your joy when you are accusing people of being heretics, of spreading faeces and when you are discussing how you justify the eternal torture of billions of people for thought crimes.

@sonship said
Number one you'd have to prove to me I ever used Argumentim ad martyrdom as proof of truth.

I don't need to "prove" it to you. I am stating that you have used Argumentum ad martyrdom countless times. If people think I am telling a lie about you, so be it.