28 Dec 14
Originally posted by sonshipRegeneration is the theological word for spiritual birth: the imputation of eternal life the moment anyone believes in Jesus Christ; the human spirit is also acquired at the moment of salvation. We are all born into this world physically alive and spiritually dead: body and soul. By "touch" I believe you may be referring to the convicting ministry of the Holy Spiritsonship, "the human spirit" is acquired at the moment of salvation [a rational decision to choose for rather than against Christ] by the regeneration work [spiritual birth and imputation of eternal life] of God the Holy Spirit;
The human spirit is [b]regenerated at the moment of salvation. Regenerated is different from created. It i ...[text shortened]... is sins and distance from God, his spirit will be born of the Spirit of God in being born again.[/b]
29 Dec 14
9 edits
Regeneration is a English translation of a Greek word which is in the text of the New Testament.
1 Peter 1:3 - "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has regenerated us unto a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead."
As you can see "regenerated" is not like the purely theological word "trinity". We cannot find "trinity" in the text of the NT, though to FACT is clear to many Bible students.
"Regenerated" is not like this word "trinity" or even "rapture." The word "regenerated" quite [edited] biblically based on the Greek text.
Again we have it as Peter speaks to the regenerated Christians -
1 Peter 1:23 - "Having been regenerated not of corruptible seed but of incorruptible, through the living an abiding word of God."
The word regeneration is used twice elsewhere in the New Testament but has a somewhat different meaning from being born again or being born anew.
When a person is not yet born physically we usually do not say that they are DEAD. They are not yet born. But they are not DEAD before conception or before coming out of the mother's womb - usually.
This is not the same with being regenerated. The deadness to being able to commune with God, fellowship with God is due to something the human being has which is spiritually dead. That is the human spirit as the innermost kernel of one's being is in need of being regenerated.
If the human spirit was altogether non-existent before one receives the Lord Jesus into their heart, then we should find no passages in the Bible referring to a spirit of man, or of any man. There are many passages in the Bible which speak of the human spirit of people not yet become Christians - ie. not yet regenerated by the living word of God, by the divine life from the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.
If you have not received the Lord Jesus yet you should know that there is something in you which is a part of YOU that is like a radio antenna. Its function is to substantiate God and Christ in His resurrection presence.
But it is in a damaged and comatose state ever since the fall of Adam. You can pray "Lord Jesus, cleanse me of my sins. Lord Jesus come into my spirit."
You innermost being, being made alive from the living word of God and the living resurrected Savior will add a dimension to your living which you did not know was possible.
And communion and fellowship with the Father can commence on an intimate and real and very personal basis. God is no longer just one's Creator. But God becomes one's intimate and loving Father. And you indeed are made alive. Another realm that was unknown is born deep within.
This was poster sonship writing from gswilm's chess login ID (by permission).
29 Dec 14
1 edit
Originally posted by gswilmOriginally posted by gswilm
[b]Regeneration is a English translation of a Greek word which is in the text of the New Testament.
1 Peter 1:3 - "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has regenerated us unto a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead."
As you can see "regenerated ...[text shortened]... This was poster [b]sonship writing from gswilm's chess login ID (by permission).[/b]
"When a person is not yet born physically we usually do not say that they are DEAD. They are not yet born. But they are not DEAD before conception or before coming out of the mother's womb - usually."
Spiritually dead at birth because of a sin nature inherited from Adam. Biological life begins at conception; human life begins at birth when the soul is imputed by Holy Spirit.
At salvation [spiritual birth] He imputes eternal life and a human spirit. Self consciousness, mentality, conscience and volition reside in the soul. Our personalities are different because of different facets of these characteristics.
29 Dec 14
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyAre you claiming that non-Christians do not have human spirit?
Spiritually dead at birth because of a sin nature inherited from Adam. Biological life begins at conception; human life begins at birth when the soul is imputed by Holy Spirit. At salvation [spiritual birth] He imputes eternal life and a human spirit
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29 Dec 14
5 edits
So here we have a little disagreement. (Or a disagreement of some size).
conscience and volition reside in the soul.
I say volition or will is in the soul, but conscience is in the human spirit.
So now we have two dear brothers who do not see eye to eye on the nature of the human spirit. One says:
"Before you are born again you have no human spirit."
And the other says -
"Before you are born again you do have a human spirit."
To the unbeliever who has not been born again, for all intents and purposes it is as though she or he has no spirit. There is no communion with God. One may know ABOUT God. But what of intimacy of fellowship?
God is not real if the spirit is not [edited] born of God.
But the CONSCIENCE of man appears to be a part of the human spirit.
Evidences:
1.) Malachi 2:14-16 is a passage where God tells the priests who are cheating on their wives to take heed to their spirit because He hates divorce.
"Take heed then to your spirit, and let no one be treacherous to the wife of his youth." (v.15b)
It should be that God means to take heed to your CONSCIENCE. The CONSCIENCE of any married man should protest to him when he is unfaithful to his wife.
"Because Jehovah has been the witness between you and the wife of your youth, to whom you have been treacherous; yet she is your companions and your wife of covenant."
"Take heed to your spirit" surely means to pay attention to what your God created human conscience is telling you. And this goes for anyone either Christians or not.
Verse 16 - "Take heed to your spirit, and do not be treacherous."
Marriage involves very sensative and tender feelings. And to betray them, God counts as "violence" and being "treacherous". So any married man whether spiritual or not needs to "take heed" to the human conscience which is the one, not totally deaden function, of every person's human spirit.
2.) Deuteronomy 2:30 is a passage about God allowing an enemy of Israel to ignore his conscience as it was "hardened" . His spirit was hardened.
" But Sihon the king of Heshbon would not let us pass through his land, for Jehovah your God hardened his spirit and made his heart obstinate for the purpose of delivering him into your hand, as he is today." (v.30)
This unbeliever and certainly unregenerated man had a hardened spirit. It should mean that his CONSCIENCE was hard to not allow Israel to pass harmlessly through his territory as displaced refugees.
His conscience was part of his spirit.
A man can pray "Lord Jesus, please soften my spirit. Lord Jesus my conscience is hardened. I feel not remorse for what I have done which the Bible says is sinful. Lord soften my conscience. Lord make my spirit soft."
3.) Jeremiah 52:11 - On one hand the human spirit being hardened can cause one to be stirred up to do wrong. By ignoring one's conscience you may be energized to commit folly or wrong doing. This passage speaks of God stirring up the spirits enemies to fight against one another.
"Jehovah has stirred up the spirit of the kings of the Medes, because He purpose is against Babylon, to destroy her; for this is the vengence of Jehovah, the vengeance for His temple."
This probably means the Medes were hardened in their consciences to go to WAR with the Babylonians. God was sovereign over all this history and through His providence used man's wars to accomplish something of His sovereign will.
4.) Haggai 1:14 - This passage is about God stirring up the spirits of some of the exiled Hebrews to return to the site of Jerusalem and the temple for its recovery -
"And Jehovah stirred up the spirit of Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, the governor of Judah, and the spirit of Joshua the son of Jehozadak, the high priest, and the spirit of all the remnant of the people; and they came and did work in the house of Jehovah of hosts their God ..."
The previous was a NEGATIVE stirring up of the spirit. This is a positive stirring up of the spirit. Both regard the human conscience.
God caused their consciences, which are a part of their spirit, to be agitated within them to put aside their personal interests and go labor on the house of God. Though they were probably not born again in the new covenant sense, God worked on their conscience. The conscience must be part of the human spirit.
There are many many other passages in the OT before we get to the human spirit being born of the Spirit of God where the conscience of man seems to be a part of even the fallen deadened spirit of the descendents of Adam.
Regardless of a person's stand on this, I think the one seeking to be saved can legitimately pray that Jesus would stir up thier spirit to approach God - "Lord Jesus, stir my spirit to come to You. Lord touch my conscience and stir up my conscience to do with God what I really should do. Amen. Thankyou Lord Jesus."
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29 Dec 14
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Originally posted by sonshipTypo - "Yet she is your [singular] companion ..." is what that verse in Malachi says.
"Because Jehovah has been the witness between you and the wife of your youth, to whom you have been treacherous; yet she is your companions and your wife of covenant."
Forgive me for sloppy typos please.
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29 Dec 14
From The Economy of God by Witness Lee
THE THREE PARTS OF THE SPIRIT—
CONSCIENCE, FELLOWSHIP, AND INTUITION
It is interesting to note that there are three persons in the Godhead, three parts to man’s being, three inward parts to the soul, and also three parts to the spirit. All are in three parts. The Scriptures also reveal three parts in the tabernacle, the building of God. Three is the basic figure or number. Even in Noah’s ark there were three levels. With the tabernacle the number three is used many times. For example, the width of one board was one and a half cubits. When two boards were joined as a pair, the total width was three cubits. This means that the number three signifies a whole unit.
Therefore, the spirit is a complete unit, composed of three parts, or functions: conscience, fellowship, and intuition.
These two New Testament verses prove that the conscience of Paul was part of the spirit of Paul -
Romans 9:1 - “My conscience bearing witness with me in the Holy Spirit.”
Compare:
Romans 8:16 - “The Spirit Himself witnesses with our spirit.”
As you can see the Holy Spirit bears witness with Paul, a Christian's human conscience. Yet the Holy Spirit bears witness with the human spirit of the Christians.
This proves that the with the Christians the human conscience is part of the human spirit. However, even an unregenerated person also has a conscience. If he did not he would be like an animal and would never come to God for forgiveness and reconciliation.
So the deadness of the man before being born again is a spiritual deadness involving the human spirit. Yet we cannot say the unbeliever has no conscience.
Whether David was born again in regeneration is hard for me to tell. I would say probably he was not. But he still requested that God would give him a "right spirit"
Psalm 51:10 - "Create in me a clean heart, O God, And renew a right spirit within me."
I think David mean he wanted a clean conscience after his moral failure with Bethsheba and the ruthless murder of her husband.
This shows that a "right spirit" or a "steadfast spirit" as some versions say, must mean a conscience that is right, upright even in the Old Testament sense.
If we have a question about David's spirit being regenerated, we should have little about evil king Sihon's spirit when he kept the Hebrews from passing through his land in the Exodus -
"But Sihon the king of Heshbon wold not let us pass through his land, for Jehovah our God hardened his spirit and made his heart obstinate for the purpose of delivering him into your hand, as he is today." (Deut. 2:30)
To be brief - the human HEART is composed of three parts of the SOUL [Mind, Emotion, Will] and one part of the human SPIRIT - conscience.
Sihon was not born again. But his conscience was hardened. His spirit was hardened - "God hardened his spirit . And the hardening of his conscience made his HEART obstinate.
For a person to be born again he has to have his heart sprinkled with the blood of Jesus from an evil CONSCIENCE. That means he must receive Jesus to be forgiven and have the peace of God within his conscience.
"Let us come forward to the Holy of Holies with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience ..." (Hebrews 10:22a)
"How much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God." (Hebrews 9:11)
The HEART of man needs to be spiritually sprinkled by the redeeming blood of Jesus "from an evil conscience" . Then the conscience which is a part of the human spirit is purified.
The fallen man has a conscience. And the gospel enlightens the man, if he is opened in the heart, to come forward to Christ to have his conscience residing in his deadened spirit, to be purified by redemption. Then his heart can be sprinkled "FROM ... and evil conscience."
He has peace now towards God. He comes into the presence of God, into the Holy of Holies the innermost nucleus of his hidden part.
And the spirit is born of God and the Lord Jesus joins and is one with his spirit -
"The Lord be with your spirit. Grace be with you." (2 Timothy 4:22)
30 Dec 14
Originally posted by sonship"... conscience is in the human spirit." All human beings are born without teeth but eventually grow them. All babies also have a format conscience [norms and standards, flawed by the sin nature] within their souls at birth which develops through parental, social, academic and spiritual training. The human spirit enables believers to understand the Word of God.
So here we have a little disagreement. (Or a disagreement of some size).
conscience and volition reside in the soul.
I say volition or will is in the soul, but conscience is in the human spirit.
So now we have two dear brothers who do not see eye to eye on the nature of the human spirit. One says:
"Before you are born aga ...[text shortened]... e and stir up my conscience to do with God what I really should do. Amen. Thankyou Lord Jesus." [/b]
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30 Dec 14
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Originally posted by Grampy BobbyI am sure you believe that Adam, created in the image of God, had a human spirit and a human soul and a human body.
"... conscience is in the human spirit." All human beings are born without teeth but eventually grow them. All babies also have a format conscience [norms and standards, flawed by the sin nature] within their souls at birth which develops through parental, social, academic and spiritual training. The human spirit enables believers to understand the Word of God.
After Adam fell the Bible says he begot a son in his own image and likeness -
"And Adam lived one hundred and thirty years and begot a son in his likeness according to his image, and he called his name Seth." (Genesis 5:3)
If Seth was made in the image and likeness of Adam, don't you think Seth also possessed a spirit and soul and body ?
I think, despite of the fact man had become spiritually dead, the descendents of Adam were still like Adam.
01 Jan 15
Originally posted by sonshipOriginally posted by sonship
I am sure you believe that Adam, created in the image of God, had a human spirit and a human soul and a human body.
After Adam fell the Bible says he begot a son in his own image and likeness -
[b]"And Adam lived one hundred and thirty years and begot a son in his likeness according to his image, and he called his name Seth." (Genesis 5:3) [/ ...[text shortened]... spite of the fact man had become spiritually dead, the descendents of Adam were still like Adam.
I am sure you believe that Adam, created in the image of God, had a human spirit and a human soul and a human body.
On what text within this thread or elsewhere do you base this certainty?
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01 Jan 15
3 edits
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyZechariah 12:1; Proverbs 20:27; were two passages I mentioned.
Originally posted by sonship
I am sure you believe that Adam, created in the image of God, had a human spirit and a human soul and a human body.
On what text within this thread or elsewhere do you base this certainty?
I would now add the important passage of Genesis 2:7 -
"Jehovah God formed man with the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life , and man became a living soul."
You have here the body made of the dust of the ground.
You have something from God as the breath of life - which became man's human spirit.
You have the two matters joining together and the result of the joining is that "man became a living soul".
You have the spirit and the soul and the body of the created first man - Adam.
We can know that the breath of God that became the human spirit of man because "the breath of the Almighty" and "a spirit" within man are apparently the same in Job 32:8.
Job 32:8 - "There is a spirit in man and the breath of the Almighty gives him understanding."
01 Jan 15
1 edit
Originally posted by sonship"14 But a natural man [unbeliever] does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them [the Gospel and Bible doctrine], because they are spiritually appraised." 1 Corinthians 2:14
Zechariah 12:1; Proverbs 20:27; were two passages I mentioned.
I would now add the important passage of Genesis 2:7 -
"Jehovah God formed man with the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life , and man became a living soul."
You have here the body made of the dust of the ground.
You have s ...[text shortened]... ob 32:8 - "There is a spirit in man and the breath of the Almighty gives him understanding." [/b]
explains this Spiritual Phenomena: Body and Soul at Physical Birth; Human Spirit acquired at Spiritual Birth. This moment
of regeneration occurs when an unbeliever uses volition to privately express to God the Father belief in Jesus Christ.
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01 Jan 15
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"14 But a natural man [unbeliever] does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them [the Gospel and Bible doctrine], because they are spiritually appraised." 1 Corinthians 2:14
explains this spiritual phenomena: Body and Soul at physical birth; Human Spirit acquired at Spiritual Bir ...[text shortened]... when an unbeliever uses volition to privately express to God the Father belief in Jesus Christ.
"14 But a natural man [unbeliever] does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them [the Gospel and Bible doctrine], because they are spiritually appraised." 1 Corinthians 2:14
I wrote a long and carefully expounded post on WHY the believing SAINTS (regenerated - born again) were referred to as immature and soulish men.
I think you cannot just ignore that analysis. I think you have to deal with it.
It would be nice and convenient to say "all regenerated people are spiritual men". But this would be too idealistic as the letter to the Corinthian church demonstrates.
Some of these Christians in Corinth were more impressed with Greek philosophical teaching than with Paul's Gospel. He could not speak to them as spiritual men and he could not feed them with the more substantial meat of spiritual teaching.
"And I, brothers , was not able to speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to fleshy, as to infants in Christ." (1 Cor. 3:1)
Infants IN CHRIST can fail to be "spiritual men".
01 Jan 15
Originally posted by sonshipAt the moment of spiritual birth, the believer in Christ is an infant: spiritually alive but untaught. Growth to maturity in acquiring the Mind of Christ is an option. Some seize it; some don't. Lack of interest due to negative volition may occur [no longer being taught and unable to apply Bible doctrine to their lives]. Retrogression into carnality results. Such Christians are still indwelt by the Holy Spirit but have lost the Filling of the Holy Spirit or the divine power to function effectively."14 But a natural man [unbeliever] does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them [the Gospel and Bible doctrine], because they are spiritually appraised." 1 Corinthians 2:14
I wrote a long and carefully expounded post on WHY the believing SAINTS (regenerated - born again) ...[text shortened]... fants in Christ." (1 Cor. 3:1)
Infants IN CHRIST can fail to be "spiritual men".[/b]
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01 Jan 15
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Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
At the moment of spiritual birth, the believer in Christ is an infant: spiritually alive but untaught.
The problem in Corinth was that some of the believers REMAINED immature. Paul could not speak to them as "spiritual men" .
They were carnal and soulish Christians. Paul is ministering to them that they might grow and become those walking in the Spirit.
It has been tempting for many Christians to equate having accurate doctrinal information to being spiritual. It will not work.
What these brothers needed was to apply the terminating cross to their natural walk. They needed to deny themselves and live the Christ that was in them. This is why the sign seeking Jewish infants and the Greek philosophical wisdom seeking Gentiles were exhorted by Paul. He said he would know nothing among them except Jesus Christ and this One crucified.
"And I, when I came to you, brothers, came not according to excellency of speech or of wisdom, announcing to you the mystery of God. For I did not determine to know anything among you except Jesus Christ, and this One crucified." ( 2:1,2)
Some of the brothers were still under the influence of the typical Greek pride in building up the physical body and the philosophical wisdom. They expected God's apostle to come speaking to them like a Socrates or a Plato but with a Christian slant.
Paul says the only thing he wanted to know among them was a Christ who was crucified. That is a Christ who DENIED Himself and lived out the Father's will.
They too should deny their natural man and live out the Christ Who has been planted into them. Though they were babes when born again, by this time they have not go on to DENY the old way of living. This has rendered them arrested in growth, and not the "spiritual men" which by this time they should be.
The failure to grow with TIME has kept them "infants in Christ" . Though many of them possessed accurate doctrinal knowledge they refused to allow the Holy Spirit to terminate their old walk. Christ crucified should be their hero, their focus.
In saying "No" to the old manner of live, dying to self, and living in the sphere of Jesus within them, would cause them to grow and become truly spiritual men.
The peril confronts all of us Christians. The church in Corinth represents a typical New Testament congregation. Many have been regenerated but have not learned to deny themselves to apply Christ in many areas of living.
Growth to maturity in acquiring the Mind of Christ is an option. Some seize it; some don't.
That is right. Paul does say of all the Christians "we have the mind of Christ". But this we must set our mind on the spirit to APPLY the mind of Christ. And that is a form of denying the old mind, denying the self.
In the Corinthian letter the difference between spiritual men and soulish men is a matter of walking. It is a matter of logging more and more time abiding in Christ. It is a matter of step by step walking so as to apply the indwelling Christ.
To these regenerated believers Paul says - "For you are still fleshly." (3:3a)
Paul does not mean "You are still unregenerated."
Paul does not mean "You are still unbelievers."
Paul does not mean "You are still not born of God."
Paul means they are retarded, have not grown spiritually in relation to the TIME they have been saved people.
Their divisions and championing one teacher over another in a sectarian way is the evidence of their immaturity -
"For you are still fleshly. For it there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly and do you not WALK ... according to the manner of men.
For when someone says, I am of Paul, and another, I of Apollos, are you not men of flesh?
Of all the problems in Corinth Paul FIRST deals with the problem of divisions among the Christians. Division is self defeating first problem. Christ set us an example of denying Himself and taking up His cross.
The local church is the extension of the cross.
The church cannot be built practically if the churching people do not deny themselves and walk in Christ.
Of course it goes without saying that they cannot be the church if they are not regenerated. But being regenerated, they cannot grow and be built up as the local church if they do not deny themselves in order to enjoy the Christ who lives in them.
To grow we have to find someone to enjoy MORE than ourselves. That more enjoyable one is the Christ that lives in us. But we must deny the self in order to abide in Christ, to walk in Christ.
Lack of interest due to negative volition may occur [no longer being taught and unable to apply Bible doctrine to their lives]. Retrogression into carnality results. Such Christians are still indwelt by the Holy Spirit but have lost the Filling of the Holy Spirit or the divine power to function effectively.
I agree that Once Sealed Always Sealed. I mean once sealed by the indwelling Holy Spirit He will never leave for eternity.
We must apply the living Person of Christ. IF you mean that Bible doctrine is the Living Person of Christ Himself, I agree.
But if you do not touch the living Person of Christ, even your accurate doctrine in the form of Bible knowledge often will not help you. You have to touch Christ Himself.
Of course no one is encouraging wrong doctrine. But it is the living Spirit embodied in the words of Scripture that liberates us.
"For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the spirit is life and peace." (Romans 8:6)
Christ is with the human spirit from regeneration on. The Christian is use to setting his mind on the natural man. He must learn to deny this and set the mind on where Chrtist IS ... with his regenerated spirit.
So Paul's last word in the New Testament, his all important final word to Timothy was that the Lord was WITH Timothy's spirit. And there there was the grace of the Lord to walk.
"The Lord be with your spirit. Grace be with you." (2 Timothy 4:22)