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Originally posted by caissad4
What you fail to understand is wandering around killing random people is murder. Bundy, Gacy and Dahmer would probably agree with you though. Suicide bombers would also agree with you. Good company, eh.😛
Sorry for understating the number of human beings murdered by Samson.
What you fail to understand is wandering around killing random people is murder. Bundy, Gacy and Dahmer would probably agree with you though. Suicide bombers would also agree with you. Good company,
Let me guess. You must be vehemently Pro Life.
Are you an avid Anti-Abortion activist ?
Originally posted by sonshipMy views are not relevant in a discussion of a man who commits 30 cold blooded murders and is held up to little children as a religious hero.
Let me guess. You must be vehemently Pro Life.
Are you an avid Anti-Abortion activist ?[/b]
Heck, he even did the suicide thing at the end. 😲
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Originally posted by caissad4
My views are not relevant in a discussion of a man who commits 30 cold blooded murders and is held up to little children as a religious hero.
Heck, he even did the suicide thing at the end. 😲
My views are not relevant in a discussion of a man who commits 30 cold blooded murders and is held up to little children as a religious hero.
Heck, he even did the suicide thing at the end.
This is a rather circular and self contradictory statement.
It is like "There are no English sentences more than three words long."
You say your views are not relevant and then you strongly express your views.
Originally posted by sonshipAre you sure it wasn't an assbone of a J-
While you're considering body count - Samson also slew 1,000 Philistine men with the jawbone of an ass [b](15:15) . (Bruce Lee had nothing on this guy.)
Then at the end of his life through his suicide / revenge, it says that he killed a number of Philistines surpassing all the ones he killed during his lifetime (16:30).
Okay. We've established that Samson killed a lot of Philistines.
That much is certain.[/b]
NVM
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The Philistines in the book of Judges should be considered as wartime enemies of Israel.
They were among the "plunderers" who alternately oppressed the generation of Jews following the death of Joshua.
" Then the anger of Jehovah burned against Israel, and He delivered them into the hands of plunderers, and they plundered them. And He sold them into the hand of their enemies around [them], and were no longer able to stand before their enemies." (1:14)
Because of the idol worship and apostasy of Israel after Joshua's generation had passed, God disciplined Israel by letting their enemies oppress them. He had quite pointedly warned them about this again and again.
"Yet they [Israel] did not listen to their judges either, but they went about as harlots after other gods and worshipped them. They turned aside quickly from the way in which their fathers walked, [the way of] obeying the commandments of Jehovah; this they did not do." (2:17)
The book of Judges then is a history of repetitive cycles of oppression and deliverance from enemies through God sent saviors.
When I read of the deaths of Philistines I imagine the deaths of those who pillaged, raped, kidnapped, stole, mistreated the Hebrews. They were part of the left over tribes of Canaan which should have been either driven out or conquered in God's judgment by sending in Israel.
" ... for Jehovah was moved to pity by their [Israel's] groaning because of those who oppressed them and crushed them." (2:18)
Israel was under the crushing oppression of the Philistines when God raised up Samson as a judge to deliver them. They had been under the Philistine's crushing oppression for about 40 years (13:1).
Originally posted by sonshipAnd why was Samson preparing to marry one of these enemies ? And why would they have any grievance against these people who God had decreed to oppress them. The Philistines were doing the direct will and judgment of the God of Israel. Seems rather contradictory, don't you think ? 🙄
The Philistines in the book of Judges should be considered as wartime enemies of Israel.
They were among the [b]"plunderers" who alternately oppressed the generation of Jews following the death of Joshua.
" Then the anger of Jehovah burned against Israel, and He delivered them into the hands of plunderers, and they plundered them.
Because of ...[text shortened]... y had been under the Philistine's crushing oppression for about 40 years [b](13:1).[/b]
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And why was Samson preparing to marry one of these enemies ?
That was part of the man's weakness.
You DO understand that many people God used in the Bible had WEAKNESSES and made errors, I hope?
Noah getting drunk and being found naked in his tent;
Abraham lying about his wife that she was his sister ... TWICE;
Isaac blessing the wrong son;
Jacob deceiving his brother;
David stealing someone's wife and murdering her husband;
Samson wanting to marry a Philistine woman and latter going to the harlot
Delilah.
Peter denying his Master Jesus three times under pressure.
You do understand that the only PERFECT servant of God was His Son Jesus Christ? As you read the Bible you should not be surprised if occasionally a servant of God is recorded as doing something which he or she should not have done.
And why would they have any grievance against these people who God had decreed to oppress them.
The oppression of the Philistines upon the Hebrews you should consider as God's discipline of a negative sort.
I may commit a crime and be turned over to the jailors. That being turned over to jailors may be a discipline assigned to me by God. When one is allowed by God to fall under such circumstances there is no gaurantee that one will not have bad experiences and resentment against those into whose hands God has allowed you to fall.
On the other hand the prophet Daniel had a somewhat more wise view of the Babylonian Captivity. So with different servants of God you do see sometimes different reactions to their circumstances.
The Philistines were doing the direct will and judgment of the God of Israel. Seems rather contradictory, don't you think
Seems paradoxical. But it is realistic. Yes, indirectly the Philistines were being used to turn the Hebrews back to God. They might have even had glee to hear that themselves. But actually the Philistine attitude was not in the least spiritual or godly. It was totally selfish and cruel.
If you continue to read the Bible you will see a number of times after God used some nation to discipline another nation, He then turns to the disciplining nation and rebukes them for going too far.
When we get to the perfect Son of God, Jesus, He did teach His disciples to love their enemies.
" You have heard that it was said, "You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy." But I say to you Love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you,
So that you may become sons of your Father who is in the heavens, because He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good and sends rain on the just and the unjust.
For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
And if you greet only your brothers, what better thing are you doing? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?
You therefore shall be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect? (Matthew 5:43-48)
It's funny how any and every person killed in the bible was a completely innocent bystander, according to the very skeptics who don't believe the bible in the first place.
If you believe the bible enough to hold God (or anyone else) accountable for the actions therein described, then you have to concede everything ELSE in the bible. Stuff like God being good, just, all-knowing, etc.
Cherrypicked, semi-biblically-based arguments against the bible are weak and self-defeating.
Originally posted by caissad4You believe the stories in the Holy Bible were all made up. So just think of it as entertainment and nothing more. So you see as far as you are concerned there was no real person named Samson and he did not really murder or kill anyone.
So, Samson murdered 30 people because of weaknesses. Is coldblooded murder justifiable because of weaknesses ? Are you saying that Samson was a holy and god-abiding man who had a weakness which makes it okay that he committed 30 cold-blooded murders ? Now that is absurd.
Originally posted by RJHindsDo you believe that there was such a person as Samson?
You believe the stories in the Holy Bible were all made up. So just think of it as entertainment and nothing more. So you see as far as you are concerned there was no real person named Samson and he did not really murder or kill anyone.
If so then why do you believe it?
Do you believe it simply because it is written in a book somewhere?
Do you think one primitive man could defeat so many others
with simply the jawbone of an ass or whatever it was?
Come here, there's this bridge I'd like to sell you ......cheap.
Originally posted by johnnylongwoodyDon't worry about what I believe. It is what you believe that matters.
Do you believe that there was such a person as Samson?
If so then why do you believe it?
Do you believe it simply because it is written in a book somewhere?
Do you think one primitive man could defeat so many others
with simply the jawbone of an ass or whatever it was?
Come here, there's this bridge I'd like to sell you ......cheap.
Originally posted by sonshipthe egyptians drowned in the red see were soldiers.if martin luther king would have killed 30 men to pay off a debt, we wouldn't "let it slide".
This is a leap. I think you may be comparing apples with turnips.
Probably you can make your point without complicating it by throwing in MLK.
But, I am not letting anything slide. I have been candid about Samson's errors and weaknesses ...[text shortened]...
In the bigger picture of the book of [b]Judges I am not getting deep into that.[/b]
the people killed by samson were civilians. he just went into a town and killed 30 men, to take their clothes.
and no, the martin luther king is not a leap. no matter how much good a person does, he should be punished for the bad things. samson is a murderer not a war hero. he didn't gather an army, formed a resistance movement. he simply went and killed a whole bunch of philistines, soldiers and civilians, and accomplished nothing other than a heap of dead.