10 Mar 09
3 edits
Originally posted by SwissGambitNo people do not go to 'heaven', after they die my friend, they don't go anywhere, they are dead! in a state of complete unconsciousness, knowing and feeling nothing, no heavenly bliss, no hell and torment, nothing!
You don't think that people go to heaven after they die?
Do you think that anything at all happens after death?
For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten. Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they have no portion anymore to time indefinite in anything that has to be done under the sun.
Go, eat your food with rejoicing and drink your wine with a good heart, because already the true God has found pleasure in your works. On every occasion let your garments prove to be white, and let oil not be lacking upon your head. See life with the wife whom you love all the days of your vain life that He has given you under the sun, all the days of your vanity, for that is your portion in life and in your hard work with which you are working hard under the sun. All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol, the place to which you are going.
Ecclesiastes 9:4-10
10 Mar 09
Also please note that under the Mosaic law, although now obsolete as far as Christians are concerned, it having been replaced with a superior covenant, that the rights of unborn children were protected -
And in case men should struggle with each other and they really hurt a pregnant woman and her children do come out but no fatal accident occurs, he is to have damages imposed upon him without fail according to what the owner of the woman may lay upon him; and he must give it through the justices. But if a fatal accident should occur, then you must give soul for soul...
Exodus 21:22-23
11 Mar 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieHmm. Aren't there several verses that promise eternal life in the bible? Are those mis-translated?
No people do not go to 'heaven', after they die my friend, they don't go anywhere, they are dead! in a state of complete unconsciousness, knowing and feeling nothing, no heavenly bliss, no hell and torment, nothing!
For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are [b]conscious of nothing at all, neither do they an ...[text shortened]... knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol, the place to which you are going.[/b]
Ecclesiastes 9:4-10[/b]
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11 Mar 09
Originally posted by SwissGambitYes there are, but not at death. As RC quoted in the book of Eccl., "there is no remembrance in death", etc. People simply go in the ground. However, at the Great Judgment, this is another matter...
Hmm. Aren't there several verses that promise eternal life in the bible? Are those mis-translated?
11 Mar 09
Originally posted by buckkyYou are actually correct. God knows us before we are even conceived. Why do infants go to heaven without "passing go" and collecting 200 aches and pains in this life, only God knows. I'm sure that in His wisdom and in His good time, He will somehow allow these infants to actually choose betweem everlasting life or everlasting death.
According to the Christian belief where does the soul of an aborted fetus go after being aborted ? I can't imagine Hell would be the destination. So whats left ? Heaven is where the little bundles must go I would think. If they do go to Heaven then they just missed the life on earth experience, but went straight into paradise for eternity. Not that bad of a deal really.
11 Mar 09
Originally posted by SwissGambitUnreal.......🙄
This is actually an interesting question. I've tried to pose it on here, but it has proved too brutal to get much response.
If you are a Christian, and you believe that fetuses [of any trimester] are persons with the right to life, and they are guaranteed to go to heaven if they die, then wouldn't it be prudent to kill them before they have a chance t ...[text shortened]... then you are faced with the unpleasant thought of them going to hell despite their innocence.
11 Mar 09
Originally posted by FabianFnasQuit listening to God-haters....I know you are more intelligent than not to actually believe this?
If any child who never had a chance to chose, is not let in into heaven but goes to hell, then in reality, god is evil.
Christianity cannot ever be a religion for me to chose because of this cruelty of their god.
11 Mar 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWhat Bible do you read? What sect/cult do you belong to?
the whole argument rests on the premise that we have an eternal soul, something that transcends death and goes to the afterlife. NOT a biblical teaching!
Proverbs 14:32
When calamity comes, the wicked are brought down, but even in death the righteous have a refuge.
John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
'nuff said!
11 Mar 09
1 edit
Originally posted by checkbaiterSo, at a funeral, when christians say, "she's in a better place now", are they just full of it?
Yes there are, but not at death. As RC quoted in the book of Eccl., "there is no remembrance in death", etc. People simply go in the ground. However, at the Great Judgment, this is another matter...
11 Mar 09
Originally posted by dystoniacAnd what do you think that they will choose if properly presented with the full facts (and presumably some sort of brain to reason with).
I'm sure that in His wisdom and in His good time, He will somehow allow these infants to actually choose betweem everlasting life or everlasting death.
11 Mar 09
Originally posted by dystoniacIf this even is a problem for christians to discuss, then the christian religion is nothing for me, and never cannot be. I'm one who thinks for myself, and the result is that no christian church is an option for me. What feels right in my heart is the right thing, and the only right thing, and nothing else.
Quit listening to God-haters....I know you are more intelligent than not to actually believe this?
The souls of fetuses going to eternal hell and damnation by the command of the christian evil god, come on...
11 Mar 09
Originally posted by SwissGambityes there are many that promise eternal life, but not at death, only after the resurrection! think of it like this, Lazarus died, he was dead for four days, where did he go? Christ stated that he was 'sleeping', (in death) if he was in heaven and Christ resurrected him and brought him back to earth to live and die again, if he was in bliss at the time, he might have something to say about it! but no, he was simply in a state of unconsciousness, awaiting the resurrection, thus Christ did in a small way, what will be done in a much larger way in the future, this is the hope that Christians entertain, the hope of being resurrected to life, as far as I am aware.
Hmm. Aren't there several verses that promise eternal life in the bible? Are those mis-translated?
11 Mar 09
Originally posted by SwissGambitLol, I dunno Swissgambit my friend, it seems to me, that we are distraught when someone close to us dies, infact nothing prepares us for it, we grieve and are literally floored. in our heart of hearts if we believe that they are someplace better why are we not happy for them? in some instances if the person was suffering severe pain or a chronic illness we may be relieved that they are in pain no more, but we are not 'happy', that they are gone. Thus it seems there is a conflict between what we 'feel', naturally, what the Bible teaches and what the church would have us believe. The resurrection seems to offer the greatest 'comfort', for it holds the prospect that we may see our dead loved ones again, Christ of course was given as a guarantee, that this was possible, being the first to be raised from the dead.
So, at a funeral, when christians say, "she's in a better place now", are they just full of it?
11 Mar 09
Originally posted by FabianFnasyes its absurd!
If this even is a problem for christians to discuss, then the christian religion is nothing for me, and never cannot be. I'm one who thinks for myself, and the result is that no christian church is an option for me. What feels right in my heart is the right thing, and the only right thing, and nothing else.
The souls of fetuses going to eternal hell and damnation by the command of the christian evil god, come on...