Originally posted by vishvahetu
Prayer in its pure sense is a connection made with God in ones heart space, and is never a petition about wants, but is a reaching out with love and acceptance.

..so are you.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
You are God.

That is obtuse karoly.

Originally posted by josephw
That is obtuse karoly.

How so?
I am giving you a compliment, are you refusing it or saying I'm way off, or have no right to be making such a claim?

Originally posted by josephw
No. God doesn't change.

How could He?

I don't know; but then again I don't affirm (seriously) any characteristics of supernatual entites. I see no reason to rule out the possibility that the nature of a magical entity can change. I have no reason to assume it is perfect, I have no reason to assume or accept any claim put forward about this nebulous entity referred to as "God".

Originally posted by Agerg
I don't know; but then again I don't affirm (seriously) any characteristics of supernatual entites. I see no reason to rule out the possibility that the nature of a magical entity can change. I have no reason to assume it is perfect, I have no reason to assume or accept any claim put forward about this nebulous entity referred to as "God".

He doesn't seem perfect according to scripture. He was angry with Adam and Eve when they ate of the tree of life, so obviously he didn't see that coming. There are many other examples in the OT where he seems to have acted to correct the course of human life which surely a perfect creator would not have needed to do.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
How so?
I am giving you a compliment, are you refusing it or saying I'm way off, or have no right to be making such a claim?

It is obtuse to even suggest that anyone other than God is God.

Whether you believe it or not karoly, there is only one God. God is God. There are no other Gods.

Now you may reply to this post with a similar sentiment of your own that may completely contradict what I said, but then the question will be who is right and who is wrong, and who's to say which is right.

I stand on the authority of the scriptures.(Bible) (Not blind faith).

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
He doesn't seem perfect according to scripture. He was angry with Adam and Eve when they ate of the tree of life, so obviously he didn't see that coming. There are many other examples in the OT where he seems to have acted to correct the course of human life which surely a perfect creator would not have needed to do.

"He was angry with Adam and Eve when they ate of the tree of life,.."

Prove that.

What I mean is this; If you believe God was angry, then demonstrate how you reached that conclusion based on the Biblical narrative.

Originally posted by Agerg
I don't know; but then again I don't affirm (seriously) any characteristics of supernatual entites. I see no reason to rule out the possibility that the nature of a magical entity can change. I have no reason to assume it is perfect, I have no reason to assume or accept any claim put forward about this nebulous entity referred to as "God".

When you get done "assuming" try knowing something you can believe in, then we might have something to debate about.

All in good fun Agerg. Not trying to be a smartass. Even if it sounds that way.

Originally posted by josephw
[b]"He was angry with Adam and Eve when they ate of the tree of life,.."

Prove that.

What I mean is this; If you believe God was angry, then demonstrate how you reached that conclusion based on the Biblical narrative.[/b]

When I look at the extensive and exhaustive barrage of punishment that god heaps on his two subjects for not managing to muster the willpower to resist the beguiling temptation he'd for some reason created for them and then warned them against, I do get the impression that he's quite angry. You don't see it that way, I gather?

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
When I look at the extensive and exhaustive barrage of punishment that god heaps on his two subjects for not managing to muster the willpower to resist the beguiling temptation he'd for some reason created for them and then warned them against, I do get the impression that he's quite angry. You don't see it that way, I gather?

Your perspective is based on a wrong interpretation.

Invert your thinking if you can and try to imagine it differently.

You will find this difficult to imagine, but it was out of the goodness and kindness of God's heart that He expelled Adam and Eve from the garden.

But don't get hung up on that. That's not what you're talking about. What you're saying in the post above that what happened to Adam and Eve is Gods fault.

But you would be wrong. You haven't the slightest clue about what it is all about in the Bible. That's the real issue here.

I suggest you quit it with the emotional and subjective perspective and try to read the narrative from a purely objective view point.

I'm not trying to be mean or anything like that, but I am trying to provoke you.

Originally posted by josephw
When you get done "assuming" try knowing something you can believe in, then we might have something to debate about.

All in good fun Agerg. Not trying to be a smartass. Even if it sounds that way.

The assumptions are all yours! Indeed you have no basis for claiming that you "know" anything about your supposed god given that you fail to be supernatural or have any senses capable of detecting such. Your Bible is no better an indicator as to the veracity of your beliefs than the Koran, Chronicles of Thor, the writings of Scientology, or any other human work. :]

Originally posted by Agerg
The assumptions are all yours! Indeed you have no basis for claiming that you "know" anything about your supposed god given that you fail to be supernatural or have any senses capable of detecting such. Your Bible is no better an indicator as to the veracity of your beliefs than the Koran, Chronicles of Thor, the writings of Scientology, or any other human work. :]

Your Bible is no better an indicator as to the veracity of your beliefs ????

not quite for when one applies Biblical principles in ones life a metamorphosis of personality takes place which in the long term should produce a more loving individual. The concept of forgiveness is absent from both Judaism and Islam, where the emphasis is on retribution and vengeance.

Indeed i suggest you apply the principles that you might find in the Chronicles of Thor, Scientology or any other work and you will be able to make a comparative study which verifies my statement.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Your Bible is no better an indicator as to the veracity of your beliefs ????

not quite for when one applies Biblical principles in ones life a metamorphosis of personality takes place which in the long term should produce a more loving individual. The concept of forgiveness is absent from both Judaism and Islam, where the emphasis is on retributi ...[text shortened]... or any other work and you will be able to make a comparative study which verifies my statement.

Name such biblical principles and I'll tell you whether they're either trivially obvious enough (for civilised people) such that explicit statement (like don't kill people) need not be given, or whether they have no merit at all (like not working on the Sabbath), or whether they are infact disagreeable (like killing your son to pay a price you set in the first place!)...and no, I don't agree your god is forgiving at all.


I fail to see how you're vindicating the Bible with this line.

Originally posted by josephw
It is obtuse to even suggest that anyone other than God is God.

Whether you believe it or not karoly, there is only one God. God is God. There are no other Gods.

Now you may reply to this post with a similar sentiment of your own that may completely contradict what I said, but then the question will be who is right and who is wrong, and who's to say which is right.

I stand on the authority of the scriptures.(Bible) (Not blind faith).

I stand on the authority of my own experiences (of higherdimensions/heaven).
We are both scaling the same mountain. From your side , you have a different view, as i do from my side. But when we get to the top, we will both see the same thing, it is only on the way that we invent different stories to get us there.

I see no problem between us. You have your convictions and they are strong and heartfelt, (with a dash of humour🙂 )
I have my new age hippy trippy claptrap to peddle to those that may want to hear some.
BTW-thnx for the inspiritation for my "attack me" thread. I thought you would've had a go at it by now....😀

Originally posted by josephw
Your perspective is based on a wrong interpretation.

Invert your thinking if you can and try to imagine it differently.

You will find this difficult to imagine, but it was out of the goodness and kindness of God's heart that He expelled Adam and Eve from the garden.

But don't get hung up on that. That's not what you're talking about. What you're say ...[text shortened]... int.

I'm not trying to be mean or anything like that, but I am trying to provoke you.

Your perspective is based on a wrong interpretation.
My interpretation differs from yours, and you therefore conclude that mine is wrong. And yet you represent the minority view.

Invert your thinking if you can and try to imagine it differently.
Invert yours and look at it rationally.

You will find this difficult to imagine, but it was out of the goodness and kindness of God's heart that He expelled Adam and Eve from the garden.
Have you actually read it? Doesn't look like much of a kindness to me.

But don't get hung up on that. That's not what you're talking about. What you're saying in the post above that what happened to Adam and Eve is Gods fault.
Of course it's god's fault. Everything is god's fault. You'll realise this eventually.

But you would be wrong. You haven't the slightest clue about what it is all about in the Bible. That's the real issue here.
Because I don't see things the way you do. I'm soooo dumb, and you're just soooo clever.

I suggest you quit it with the emotional and subjective perspective and try to read the narrative from a purely objective view point.
Do you even read what you write? You admit to a closed mind, and then instruct me to attempt an objective examination? !

I'm not trying to be mean or anything like that, but I am trying to provoke you.
You're not succeeding in either of these things. You are coming across as a patronising ass however - is that a christian ideal, do you think?