Clan System Request for Proposals

Originally posted by moonbus
Hi Costad. Thanks for weighing in. One of the great attractions of the clan system, over a team system, is its flexibility. I have played on teams (I mean real teams! ). They are organized very rigidly: every team has the same number of players, members stay the course, boards are matched within strict rating bounds (1st boards play only 1st or 2d boa ...[text shortened]... ant sacrificial-combinations clan, and so on, but no best clan. Maybe, I just don't know.

Great points.
I just want to add though... All the bickering that has gone on since I joined the site is about being the best clan on here lol.
I am happy (as is my clan) to make page 1... because I personally lost interest in the personal attacks over this....

Everyone uses a different method to match up and that is where we clash.
I like to look at 5 year highs.... others like the 1 year high. Others like the average over a period.
The best rating I have ever achieved on this site is 1629.....
That is since around 2010 (the year)....
My point is, try as I did over the years... I could never ever get to 1700... let alone 1650....
Then an opponent clan leader expects me to go up against a guy who was once 1800 in the last 5 years...
Its equal he says because although that guy was once 1800.... he really is just a 1500 now... lol

Originally posted by Costad
Great points.
I just want to add though... All the bickering that has gone on since I joined the site is about being the best clan on here lol.
I am happy (as is my clan) to make page 1... because I personally lost interest in the personal attacks over this....

Everyone uses a different method to match up and that is where we clash.
I like to look at 5 ...[text shortened]... ts equal he says because although that guy was once 1800.... he really is just a 1500 now... lol

You talk a lot of sense Costy(unlike in the wolfie games!!).
I'm not a leader anymore but our principals are/were very similar.
I've suggested before that the 200 point matchup restriction should apply to 1 yr or 5 yr rating.
Certainly not "current" as this is easily manipulated.

Originally posted by moonbus
Hi Costad. Thanks for weighing in. One of the great attractions of the clan system, over a team system, is its flexibility. I have played on teams (I mean real teams! ). They are organized very rigidly: every team has the same number of players, members stay the course, boards are matched within strict rating bounds (1st boards play only 1st or 2d boa ...[text shortened]... ant sacrificial-combinations clan, and so on, but no best clan. Maybe, I just don't know.

We are zeroing in on the real issue here. One cannot have a meaningful hard-and-fast, objective result in a system that is this informal.

Rigidity is necessarily the price paid for the objective result which most clan members seem to want. One or the other - the informality, or the result, must be given up. You can't have both.

Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
We are zeroing in on the real issue here. One cannot have a meaningful hard-and-fast, objective result in a system that is this informal.

Rigidity is necessarily the price paid for the objective result which most clan members seem to want. One or the other - the informality, or the result, must be given up. You can't have both.

Exactly !!

The changes being proposed here would render the clan feature becoming something other than a clan feature.

Minor changes (tinkering) would be recommended instead of wholesale changes.
Russ is probably quite aware of this.

I believe my suggestion of a referee system is a viable solution.
Only downside might be physical human resources required to support this.
Moonbus' suggestion of a member's panel is a pretty good start.

Originally posted by mghrn55
Exactly !!

The changes being proposed here would render the clan feature becoming something other than a clan feature.

Minor changes (tinkering) would be recommended instead of wholesale changes.
Russ is probably quite aware of this.

I believe my suggestion of a referee system is a viable solution.
Only downside might be physical human resources required to support this.
Moonbus' suggestion of a member's panel is a pretty good start.

That being the case why not just have them in alphabetical order ?

Originally posted by Russ
Your chance to input into the future of the clan system.

I would like serious contributions on how you would like the clan system improved.

A brief one liner, with added detail where required in a further paragraph.

All deliberately disruptive/OT posts will be deleted.

A consultation vote will then be used to decide what and what doesn't get implemented.

folks, we have an opportunity here

input has been good

i'd like to see the suggestions distill into a list we can vote on

then Russ can determine what's possible and what's on the wish list

thanks
~leo

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
A system based on net clan ELO has to be implemented, this will kill sandbagging and lopsided challenges stone dead and force clan leaders to make much more fairer challenges.

A little bird has whispered in my ear that you set out this year to " smash the clan system "
Well you have done that but you have also driven people like Wycombe Al off of site
All he ever did was to get as many games going for his clan as possible
That takes a great deal of hard work and time
The main thing wrong with the clan system is points awarded
Where if a clan wins 51% of the games they get 100% of the points and the losing clan gets -100% this is makes it easy for teams to " free up the workload "
The question of lopsided challenges has been somewhat curtailed
If the points awarded could get sorted out all that is needed is the sandbagging situation
This would be sorted if games that are resigned or timed out become null and void and so do not contribute to rating

Originally posted by padger
That being the case why not just have them in alphabetical order ?

good idea i will change my clans name to AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

i would as worthy a winner as last year "champs" 😀😀😀😀

Originally posted by roma45
good idea i will change my clans name to AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

i would as worthy a winner as last year "champs" 😀😀😀😀

I was waiting for that one

Originally posted by padger
A little bird has whispered in my ear that you set out this year to " smash the clan system "
Well you have done that but you have also driven people like Wycombe Al off of site
All he ever did was to get as many games going for his clan as possible
That takes a great deal of hard work and time
The main thing wrong with the clan system is points awarded
...[text shortened]... if games that are resigned or timed out become null and void and so do not contribute to rating

What gossip you listen to is your affair. Why Wycombe Al left the site is his affair. I would be pleased if you kept such sentiments to some other forum. This is for the implementation of ideas to change the current clan system and make it fairer and better.

An ELO based system would do away with sandbagging because it would be in a clan leaders interests to find opponents that were of equal rating or a little above. Why? because there would be little reward in beating up players who were lowly rated. It would do away with the present position of losing all points simply because we lost one more game than our opponent. It would also put an and to players using tournaments to artificially reduce their rating. It would also put an and to players throwing games when a challenge is numerically won. What would really be rewarded was improvement in chess play and the willingness to take risks by pairing our players against slightly higher rated opponents, thus maximising the rewards.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
What gossip you listen to is your affair. Why Wycombe Al left the site is his affair. I would be pleased if you kept such sentiments to some other forum. This is for the implementation of ideas to change the current clan system and make it fairer and better.

An ELO based system would do away with sandbagging because it would be in a clan leader ...[text shortened]... sks by pairing our players against slightly higher rated opponents, thus maximising the rewards.

how will ELO stop collusion?
it wont player will continue to leave

a points removal will stop that, its a serious option i am asking for, it happened before so in fairness it MUST happen again you will obviously disagree

lets have a vote on it along with the other proposals

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
What gossip you listen to is your affair. Why Wycombe Al left the site is his affair. I would be pleased if you kept such sentiments to some other forum. This is for the implementation of ideas to change the current clan system and make it fairer and better.

An ELO based system would do away with sandbagging because it would be in a clan leader ...[text shortened]... sks by pairing our players against slightly higher rated opponents, thus maximising the rewards.

Before you can go foreword you need to find out what went wrong in the first place
This would of course include your particular involvement in it and what should be done about how you achieved it
I agree with roma 45 this should be addressed first

Originally posted by padger
Before you can go foreword you need to find out what went wrong in the first place
This would of course include your particular involvement in it and what should be done about how you achieved it
I agree with roma 45 this should be addressed first

I agree with padger and Roma.

And let collusion be punished, now for past collusion and instantly if it ever happens again.

Originally posted by roma45
how will ELO stop collusion?
it wont player will continue to leave

a points removal will stop that, its a serious option i am asking for, it happened before so in fairness it MUST happen again you will obviously disagree

lets have a vote on it along with the other proposals

This has already been explained to you by moonbus, if you did not understand what he said i suggest you ask someone for help.