Originally posted by moonbusfix the system and make it based on actual clan performance and it will self regulate. The only adjudication that will need to be done is with regard to engine users. Sandbagging etc will have been dealt with by the system, this is its beauty. Fix the system and trust will be restored.
Why do people want an adjudication committee? Because there is a lack of trust here, and because, to restore trust, justice must be seen to have been done.
Originally posted by MctaytoMost clans on here have way more than 4 players, so that wouldn't be a problem.
If you can't play challenges before you recruit a minimum number into your clan then you reduce the capability of that leader to recruit as his first members can't get challenges, can't evaluate the clan potential etc
Further to this others have muted a reduction in the number of clans that a member is allowed to join thus reducing in effect gameload withou ...[text shortened]... joining a clan unable/allowed to start challenges until a minimum number of membership achieved.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieNo system invented by man or woman can prevent collusion, as evidenced by 2016.
fix the system and make it based on actual clan performance and it will self regulate. The only adjudication that will need to be done is with regard to engine users. Sandbagging etc will have been dealt with by the system, this is its beauty. Fix the system and trust will be restored.
We must have an oversight committee in place to regulate abuses by those individuals on this site determined to collude. Bottom line, we don't trust you or others like you as far as we can throw you.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieperhaps you might explain why you took part in collusion for the whole of 2016?
Can you tell the forum what the point is of colluding with clans that have players who are higher rated and losing the entire challenge, no? well what are you talking about?
An ELO performance based system will make collusion worthless because there will be no point in playing anything other than fair challenges, if you cannot grasp this simple ...[text shortened]... letting your clock run out you will lose the game and your clans ELO will be adversely effected.
any system will not stop collusion i can see loop holes you and co horts can exploit no matter what is in place.
the only way is to remove points as a punishment, it has happened before so must happen again, its obvious certain players have no integrity and take delight in "smashing the system" one even boosting on his profile page doing just that.
if you are being honest and said it was all a protest to force russ to make changes then surely you will agree collusion points should be removed?
players have left others are getting ready to leave all because of the collusion, it should have been sorted out last janusry.
collusion points must be removed i dont want any one banned but justice must be done or we will continue to be laughrd at by other sites. you can flap your arms all you want and try and drag this into a slagging match as you always do,
luckily its up to russ not you.
06 Jan 17
Originally posted by Steve45It eliminates a member from starting their own clan as they need to get on your suggestion a minimum of 4 members before eligible to accept/make challenges.
Most clans on here have way more than 4 players, so that wouldn't be a problem.
When you add to this the possibility that members may have restriction as to the number of clans that they can be members of then you make it harder for a new clan to recruit.
06 Jan 17
Originally posted by my2sonsRobbies suggestion would deter clans from throwing games to conclude a challenge which is why I am sure you prefer a manual (corruptible) method of the way forward 🙁
No system invented by man or woman can prevent collusion, as evidenced by 2016.
We must have an oversight committee in place to regulate abuses by those individuals on this site determined to collude. Bottom line, we don't trust you or others like you as far as we can throw you.
Originally posted by Mctaytoonly a points removal will stop collusion it has happened before must happen again
Robbies suggestion would deter clans from throwing games to conclude a challenge which is why I am sure you prefer a manual (corruptible) method of the way forward 🙁
russ will decide not you or me.
i for one see no way forward until collusion has been punished and dead players can to longer be exploited by the parasites in the system
Originally posted by roma45you keep harping on, either suggest an improvement to the system as it stands or please shut up and let those that want to find solutions do so, your incessant whining, predictable finger pointing contributes practically nothing.
only a points removal will stop collusion it has happened before must happen again
russ will decide not you or me.
i for one see no way forward until collusion has been punished and dead players can to longer be exploited by the parasites in the system
As has been pointed out to you on more than one occasion retrospectively punishing players for allegedly engaging in a practice that is not covered in the terms of service will not solve anything with regard to the present system and your insistence that it will is a nonsense.
Originally posted by roma45I don't need to explain a single thing to you, this thread is for finding improvements to the present system, either respect that fact or shut up, you are clouding the thread up with meaningless drivel.
perhaps you might explain why you took part in collusion for the whole of 2016?
any system will not stop collusion i can see loop holes you and co horts can exploit no matter what is in place.
the only way is to remove points as a punishment, it has happened before so must happen again, its obvious certain players have no integrity and take delight in "sm ...[text shortened]... nd try and drag this into a slagging match as you always do,
luckily its up to russ not you.
Originally posted by my2sonsNo one has talked about preventing it. What a rating based system will do is negate its effects. How you can fail to comprehend this I cannot say.
No system invented by man or woman can prevent collusion, as evidenced by 2016.
We must have an oversight committee in place to regulate abuses by those individuals on this site determined to collude. Bottom line, we don't trust you or others like you as far as we can throw you.
Your oversight committee is unworkable in practice.
For example your clan dumped challenges at the end of the year, what will an oversight committee do to redress that? your leader is on record as stating that he feels its justifiable if his players throw games in a challenge that is already won (having the same effect as sandbagging). What will an oversight committee do to address that? make you give back the points, make you play out the challenge until its only kings on the board? what a piece of ill conceived nonsense. The only way that anything can be resolved is if you are rewarded for winning games and punished for losing them. If you don't understand how and ELO based system would negate the effects of sandbagging, collusion and throwing games then why not ask someone for help.
Your trust is not required in a system that is based on ratings, the system will take care of itself for there will be no incentive to sandbag or collude. Again it appears that you simply fail to understand this.
Originally posted by robbie carrobiewrong yet again i have explained in detail many times to why a points removal will stop collusion, you are the one constantly telling posters to shut up
I don't need to explain a single thing to you, this thread is for finding improvements to the present system, either respect that fact or shut up, you are clouding the thread up with meaningless drivel.
we all know your smoke and mirrors tactics. they will not work this time.
you set out in your own words to "smash the system" we have had a year of you boosting about doing collusion
any system will not stop collusion, points removal for what happened last year with the threat it will happen again to ANY CLAN doing collusion, that will stop it
RUSS has asked EVERYONE for ideas that is my main idea only russ can ignore it or tell me to shut up, not you robbie
a points removal has happened before, clans have been suspended before it must happen now.[should really have happened last january in my opinion]
Originally posted by roma45tell us again how you are going to stop sandbagging, throwing games, prematurely ending challenges for try as i might i cannot find a single solution that you have proffered other than to suggest that we retrospectively punish clans for transgressing some unwritten law that you seem to have made up. Its a moronic suggestion that does nothing to actually change the system at present nor to make it more fair or exciting.
wrong yet again i have explained in detail many times to why a points removal will stop collusion, you are the one constantly telling posters to shut up
we all know your smoke and mirrors tactics. they will not work this time.
you set out in your own words to "smash the system" we have had a year of you boosting about doing collusion
any system will ...[text shortened]... een suspended before it must happen now.[should really have happened last january in my opinion]
does punishment stop people using engines? does the death sentence stop people from murder? take a look at the evidence and let reality sink in. The only solution is to make the practice have no desirable effect.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThis thread seems to descending into chaos.
tell us again how you are going to stop sandbagging, throwing games, prematurely ending challenges for try as i might i cannot find a single solution that you have proffered other than to suggest that we retrospectively punish clans for transgressing some unwritten law that you seem to have made up. Its a moronic suggestion that does nothing to actu ...[text shortened]... ce and let reality sink in. The only solution is to make the practice have no desirable effect.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI may have missed some posts in here.
Ok I understand what you are saying now. However consider this. If a player, matched in a challenge against someone with an identical rating throws his game by prematurely resigning his clan will lose the rating difference. The other clan will gain the rating difference and the player who won the challenge, his rating will go up. This cannot go o ...[text shortened]... forced to take greater risks to gain greater points and we will have a much more exciting time.
I am a little fuzzy I'm some areas.
Maybe I missed some posts in there.
1-Can you explain to how the ELO system works as you propose it ?
2-explain the proposal of a clan rating. Is this to mean that the clan rating floats as opposed to the player ratings ?
I need to be clarified.
Some of these ideas can work.
I just need to understand some of them better.
I Googled ELO. I didn't get much out of it.
I just need to know how ratings move under the ELO system.
My current frame of reference is the rating formula in the FAQ.
Originally posted by robbie carrobiei made a list which you choose to ignore, thankfully russ will decide not you
tell us again how you are going to stop sandbagging, throwing games, prematurely ending challenges for try as i might i cannot find a single solution that you have proffered other than to suggest that we retrospectively punish clans for transgressing some unwritten law that you seem to have made up. Its a moronic suggestion that does nothing to actu ...[text shortened]... ce and let reality sink in. The only solution is to make the practice have no desirable effect.
1] a different clan to tournament rating that is a must and will reduce sandbagging
2] in a clan challenge make every point a prisoner, say 10 v 10, winner gets 20 points loser gets 0 then bonus points for every game won, so even the losing clan can get 9 points, every game will mean some thing, again this will cut down sandbagging,
3] no dead player to be selected time to stop that gravy train for good, if a player has not moved in say 14 days hes auto banned until he moves again.
4] clans should only be allowed to play the same clan once a month, cut down on collusion
5] restoring pride and integrity collusion points from 2016 must be removed it has happened before and must happen again
benefits
a] restore integrity
b] stop players leaving
c] send a message to all players collusion will be punished
i know you are rattled when you resort to calling me moronic making a giant leap to murder
you want no desirable effect? i know here is an idea, just play fair? simple