If I wanted a proof of a designer, then I would be happy to see any non-random pattern that is complex enough to be non-explainable in any other way than a work of a designer. For me it would be enough with 100 decimals of pi, non changing for many generations.
It would suffice with a pattern of galaxies forming letters of her name, enough perfect to not to be explained in any other way than a touch of a designer.
But having a solar eclipse on Earth? No, that's not good enough.
Originally posted by FabianFnasEspecially since they started billions of years ago when there wasn't even life on Earth at all.
If I wanted a proof of a designer, then I would be happy to see any non-random pattern that is complex enough to be non-explainable in any other way than a work of a designer. For me it would be enough with 100 decimals of pi, non changing for many generations.
It would suffice with a pattern of galaxies forming letters of her name, enough perfect to n ...[text shortened]... than a touch of a designer.
But having a solar eclipse on Earth? No, that's not good enough.
Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke"It opens the lungs, washes the countenance, exercises the eyes, and softens down the temper, so cry away".
Hey, just passed Chaney in the forum corridor. He looked a little roughed up and was sobbing uncontrollably. I redirected him to a more appropriate forum.
Charles Dickens
**nothing by Audrey Hepburn on this matter. 🙂
Originally posted by chaney3"Softens down the temper".
"It opens the lungs, washes the countenance, exercises the eyes, and softens down the temper, so cry away".
Charles Dickens
**nothing by Audrey Hepburn on this matter. 🙂
Much needed after exchanging posts with Ghost, twhitehead, sonhouse and humy. 😉
Originally posted by HandyAndyPay no attention to him Andy. It's quite obvious that Ghost is displaying 'mob psychology' due to the arena of atheists in this science forum. His tactic will not succeed.
A forum more appropriate for uncontrollable sobbing? Which one would that be?
Let's say there really is a sound and solid evidence for a designer 'of it all'. Noone has yet been proposed anything that holds scientific scrutiny, but bear with me.
Then we have to show she is an intelligent designer. Because there are so many things in the universe that show no intelligence at all. Some even show non-intelligence or anti-intelligence.
But let's say for a moment that there really is a sound and solid evidence for an *intelligent* designer 'of it all'. Noone has yet been proposed anything that holds scientific scrutiny, but bear with me.
Then we have to show she is a god, or not just a future scientist of an super-intelligent race that just is doing some experiments of producing universes, as a hobby, just for fun.
But let's say for a moment that there really is a sound and solid evidence for an *intelligent* designer 'of it all', that actually is a god. Noone has yet been proposed anything that holds scientific scrutiny, but bear with me.
Then we have to show that she is one god of that kind, or if there are more, perhaps many, perhaps a lot of these gods that only one disigned our universe.
But let's say for a moment that there really is a sound and solid evidence for an *intelligent* designer 'of it all', that actually is one, and one only, god. Noone has yet been proposed anything that holds scientific scrutiny, but bear with me.
Then we have to show that she is the one christians worship. Perhaps it is the same that the jews or the muslems worship. Or she is one of the hindi gods or any other god that are worships by some spiritual group on Earth, or elsewhere.
Just say that this intelligent designer is just a speculation, nothing more. An explanation of the yet unknown, by the worshipper, or by any other that is not familiar with the methodology of science.
To believe in a creator, intelligent or not, is a part of a religion, nothing more. It has nothing to do with science. Because if it would be science, then it wouldn't be a religion. Because it is a part of religion, it is beyond the physical laws of the universe, and therefore not science.
A designer is not needed to explain anything in the universe. There are things we don't know yet, but we will know eventually. To put a designer there to explain things we don't know yet is futile, because the borders to the unknown is always pushed forward.
The question will always be there to ID'ers to answer: Who created this designer?
Look at this picture: http://www.eclipsewise.com/solar/SEatlas/SEatlas3/SEatlas2001.GIF
Seems quite chaotic, don't you think? Hardly an evidence of an intelligent designer.
But it is as chaotic as science would explain. No need for an intelligent designer to explain solar eclipses, if you ask me.
if a god wanted all of us to know that he designed everything, as he supposed to have created the whole entire universe, showing us evidence of his design that would convince as all including I (such as huge writing in the sky explaining this etc) should be a cinch -and yet we see no such evidence.
If a god did NOT want us to know that he designed everything, he would make sure he will leave no evidence thus the so-called "evidence" claimed by some of his design doesn't exist.
If a god merely accidentally left evidence of his design, he done it accidentally indicates he doesn't cure what we believe; that would go against the beliefs of Christian fundamentalists.
-all three possibilities covered there and all three go against the beliefs of many Christian fundamentalists.
Originally posted by humyIt is also a very strange position to view God as the creator and designer of the universe, populating it with trillions of planets, only to put life on one of them.
if a god wanted all of us to know that he designed everything, as he supposed to have created the whole entire universe, showing us evidence of his design that would convince as all including I (such as huge writing in the sky explaining this etc) should be a cinch -and yet we see no such evidence.
If a god did NOT want us to know that he designed everythin ...[text shortened]... sibilities covered there and all three go against the beliefs of many Christian fundamentalists.
Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke"...only to put life on one of them."
It is also a very strange position to view God as the creator and designer of the universe, populating it with trillions of planets, only to put life on one of them.
As we, mere mortal scientists, know about. Yet.
Or do you really think that any findings of extra terrestrial life is a proof of no god?
Originally posted by Ghost of a Dukeyes; if we are so special and the whole universe is made for us, why make trillions of planets most of which will never have life on them and most of them will not ever be seen nor detected by humans via any means including via telescopes?
It is also a very strange position to view God as the creator and designer of the universe, populating it with trillions of planets, only to put life on one of them.