04 Aug 17
Originally posted by @eladarI agree it's interesting.
https://www.britannica.com/event/T4-Program
Interesting article, it supports both of our positions. Applied eugenics is how the program was described in the article.
"Nazi officials assigned people to this program largely based on their economic productivity."
04 Aug 17
Originally posted by @wildgrassWas that largely or entirely?
I agree it's interesting.
"Nazi officials assigned people to this program largely based on their economic productivity."
Were Jews killed due to economic productivity?
04 Aug 17
Originally posted by @wildgrassYou don't know why Hitler felt he needed to purify his Aryan super race society?
I dunno. The article says that pseudoscience rationalizations were used to convince doctors to get on board with a pre-existing program.
Do you deny that Hitler was trying to create the uberman?
04 Aug 17
Originally posted by @wildgrassI am questioning the logic that what was written in the Origin of Species justifies genocide.
No it's not "make double sure". I am questioning the logic that what was written in the Origin of Species justifies genocide. I simply asked you to provide the key evidence that makes it make sense. That people have written about it is not evidence. There are people who write extensively about Hitler's motivations / inspirations, including Hitler himself, ...[text shortened]... oint about Nietzsche, but his philosophy is very distinct from Darwin, and notably anti science.
Here's a few key points which might shed some more light on the topic:
• descent of species
• struggle for existence
• natural selection
• inheritance of acquire characters
• recapitulation theory
• progressivism
• hierarchy of races
That people have written about it is not evidence.
No one said anything remotely close to that.
The content of the writings is where you can find the evidence.
I'm willing to bet there are people who have written about how Darwin did NOT inspire Hitler.
That people have written about it is not evidence.
Your apparently unassailable argument sounds like you picked Darwin out of a hat and picked some atrocity at random and force-fed the conclusion that one caused the other.
Except for the pesky problem of overlapping concepts, you might have a point.
When I questioned it, you claimed it was beyond refute, yet you seem to have no evidence at all to justify it (except to say that it's been written about before, and that they taught evolution in German schools around the same time).
It's beyond refute simply because of the sheer quantity of established research papers, books, etc., which have been offered by scholars.
There have been a few who have done everything possible to separate Darwin from Hitler, but they all run into the same brick wall: kinda hard to keep those two apart when you have Ernst Haeckel smack dab in the middle of the two, huh.
04 Aug 17
5 edits
Originally posted by @freakykbh1, there is NO evidence that Darwin approved of genocide.
[b]I am questioning the logic that what was written in the Origin of Species justifies genocide.
Here's a few key points which might shed some more light on the topic:
• descent of species
• struggle for existence
• natural selection
• inheritance of acquire characters
• recapitulation theory
• progressivism
• hierarchy of races
Tha ...[text shortened]... ard to keep those two apart when you have Ernst Haeckel smack dab in the middle of the two, huh.
I challenge you to show a single credible reference to the contrary...
2, even if, purely hypothetical, Darwin DID approve of genocide, that doesn't mean the theory of evolution is wrong nor that that theory must be based on approval of genocide, because clearly it isn't. All it would mean (if hypothetically true, which it isn't) is that he would be bad as a person, NOT that his theory is bad or wrong. Bad people can still make good and correct theories, you know. And I am sure many have done. So trying to attack evolution by attacking the character of the person who discovered it, NOT the theory, is a BAD FAIL. You fail.
Nothing in the theory of evolution implies we should morally approve of genocide because evolution is not a theory of morality. Any theory that merely explains how something came about (such as evolution) is necessarily not a theory of how we morally should behave.
Thus, as usual, you talk a load of irrelevant rubbish.
04 Aug 17
Originally posted by @freakykbhYou keep saying there is evidence, content etc. for inspiration without saying what it is, and I'm not going to agree with your beyond refute conclusion if you don't even know what evidence you're using to reach that conclusion. If you were telling someone about how Darwin inspired Hitler to kill people, what would you say and how would you defend your position? Is it just a series of vague references to "overlapping concepts?" Your "key points" of racial hierarchy, inheritance, struggles and eugenics predate Darwin by a long long way. How does the concept of natural selection overlap with genocide?
[b]I am questioning the logic that what was written in the Origin of Species justifies genocide.
Here's a few key points which might shed some more light on the topic:
• descent of species
• struggle for existence
• natural selection
• inheritance of acquire characters
• recapitulation theory
• progressivism
• hierarchy of races
Tha ...[text shortened]... ard to keep those two apart when you have Ernst Haeckel smack dab in the middle of the two, huh.
Hitler did a ton of talking and writing about his motivations and justifications. Where does he talk/write about natural selection? If Hitler did adopt Darwinian theory, what feature of the theory induced the act of genocide?
04 Aug 17
9 edits
Originally posted by @wildgrassanswer; none. Instead he used the Bible against the Jews because, according to the Bible, the Jews betrayed Christ. In other words, IF it WAS, rather simplistically, either just purely science or just purely religion (and if not something other than those two things) that induced his act of genocide (and I am not making the claim that everything was black or white), then it was clearly religion, not science. But I guess what induced him to genocide was multiple causes and complex with religion playing only part of it because as a child he was neglected by his mother and beaten and terrorized by his father and that must have massively warped his mental development for the worse.
If Hitler did adopt Darwinian theory, what feature of the theory induced the act of genocide?
04 Aug 17
Originally posted by @humy1, there is NO evidence that Darwin approved of genocide.
1, there is NO evidence that Darwin approved of genocide.
I challenge you to show a single credible reference to the contrary...
2, even if, purely hypothetical, Darwin DID approve of genocide, that doesn't mean the theory of evolution is wrong nor that that theory must be based on approval of genocide, because clearly it isn't. All it would mean (if hyp ...[text shortened]... how we morally should behave.
Thus, as usual, you talk a load of irrelevant rubbish.
I challenge you to show a single credible reference to the contrary...
There is NO evidence that anyone claimed Darwin approved of genocide.
I challenge you to show a single credible reference to the contrary...
2, even if, purely hypothetical, Darwin DID approve of genocide, that doesn't mean the theory of evolution is wrong nor that that theory must be based on approval of genocide, because clearly it isn't.
Wait a tic!
I think I found the person who appears to be claiming Darwin approved of genocide...
All it would mean (if hypothetically true, which it isn't) is that he would be bad as a person, NOT that his theory is bad or wrong. Bad people can still make good and correct theories, you know. And I am sure many have done. So trying to attack evolution by attacking the character of the person who discovered it, NOT the theory, is a BAD FAIL. You fail.
Against strawman arguments, you ROCK.
GOOD ROCK, as in YOU NAILED IT, YO.
Now, if you could just find someone who holds the views you just royally blew away, you’d look like an absolute hero.
Nothing in the theory of evolution implies we should morally approve of genocide because evolution is not a theory of morality.
Just because ToE does its mightiest to avoid any discussion of morality doesn’t mean it doesn’t say something about morality.
Don’t be fooled by its demure exterior!
Any theory that merely explains how something came about (such as evolution) is necessarily not a theory of how we morally should behave.
ToE has been so wildly successful, perhaps the same efforts could be put toward “how something came about” when ‘nothing was about.’
That’d be cool.
Thus, as usual, you talk a load of irrelevant rubbish.
Let’s not mince words; we both know you’re crazy about me.
04 Aug 17
Originally posted by @wildgrassGo back to sleep; I'll let you rest in peace...
You keep saying there is evidence, content etc. for inspiration without saying what it is, and I'm not going to agree with your beyond refute conclusion if you don't even know what evidence you're using to reach that conclusion. If you were telling someone about how Darwin inspired Hitler to kill people, what would you say and how would you defend your po ...[text shortened]... n? If Hitler did adopt Darwinian theory, what feature of the theory induced the act of genocide?
04 Aug 17
Originally posted by @freakykbhThanks. Why'd you have to wake me up with that 'beyond refute' tripe?
Go back to sleep; I'll let you rest in peace...
04 Aug 17
Originally posted by @wildgrassBecause it is.
Thanks. Why'd you have to wake me up with that 'beyond refute' tripe?
04 Aug 17
Originally posted by @freakykbhJeez I was almost asleep. Thanks for your admission that your original statement was tripe.
Because it is.
Feel free to wake me up when you figure out how to make a proper evidence-based argument.
05 Aug 17
Originally posted by @wildgrassGoing to play those silly games?
Jeez I was almost asleep. Thanks for your admission that your original statement was tripe.
Feel free to wake me up when you figure out how to make a proper evidence-based argument.
Play with yourself.