04 Aug 17
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Originally posted by @freakykbhThe correlations thereof what? A correlation of ideas?
I might be confused--- although I seriously doubt it--- but are you challenging the existence of many scholarly research papers on the correlations thereof?
I don't challenge that research papers (and books) have been written on the subject. Research papers have been written on lots of subjects. Given his prolific writings and musings and speeches, I asked you: where does Hitler cite Darwin as an inspiration for his vision?
He talks about a lot of individual people in Mein Kampf (Henry Ford, Lenin, Napoleon etc.). I'm sure, if natural selection as proposed by Darwin was his inspiration, he must have mentioned it at some point.
04 Aug 17
Originally posted by @wildgrassSo if you claim to believe in evolution, but do not identify Darwin, are your beliefs still influenced by Darwin?
The correlations thereof what? A correlation of ideas?
I don't challenge that research papers (and books) have been written on the subject. Research papers have been written on lots of subjects. Given his prolific writings and musings and speeches, I asked you: where is citation where Hitler cites Darwin as an inspiration for his vision?
He talks ab ...[text shortened]... al selection as proposed by Darwin was his inspiration, he must have mentioned it at some point.
04 Aug 17
Originally posted by @eladarThat sorta depends on the context. I ride the bus every day because I'm a firm believer in public transportation, but it is not an inspiration for genocide.
So if you claim to believe in evolution, but do not identify Darwin, are your beliefs still influenced by Darwin?
I would like to see the quotes to be sure. The best "evidence" for Darwinian inspiration provided on this forum so far is that evolution was taught in German textbooks around the same time. I wouldn't call that inspiration.
Here's a quote I dug up:
"Where do we get the right to believe that humanity was not already from its earliest origins what it is today? Looking at nature teaches us that in the realm of plants and animals transformations and further developments occur. But never within a genus has evolution [Entwicklung] made such a wide leap, which humans must have made, if they had been transformed from an ape-like condition to what they are now." - Hitler
Does that sound like Darwin? Does it sound like a correlation thereof?
04 Aug 17
Originally posted by @wildgrassHitler was concerned in creating the uberman society. He believed in racial superiority and believed other races inferior.
That sorta depends on the context. I ride the bus every day because I'm a firm believer in public transportation, but it is not an inspiration for genocide.
I would like to see the quotes to be sure. The best "evidence" for Darwinian inspiration provided on this forum so far is that evolution was taught in German textbooks around the same time. I would ...[text shortened]... hey are now." - Hitler
Does that sound like Darwin? Does it sound like a correlation thereof?
Within the German society the inferiors needed to be removed. They could be inferior based on race or by physical disfunction.
Originally posted by @eladarNo, he was Christian and used the Bible as propaganda against the Jews because, according to the Bible, the Jews betrayed Christ; the result was mass murder of Jews.
As for Hitler, he was very much into the Germanic Pantheon of Gods.
And Nazism is a Christian ideology based on nonsense of 'God' guiding evolution (thus something no atheist would believe) to create 'the superior master race' (themselves, of course) -typical unscientific delusional Christian arrogance from Christian extremists.
This has nothing to do with the real modern scientific theory of evolution which says/implies nothing about that nonsense of 'God guiding it' nor one race being 'inferior' over another; there is no scientific evidence supporting either those two things.
Originally posted by @humyHumy, evolution is nonsense.
No, he was Christian and used the Bible as propaganda against the Jews because, according to the Bible, the Jews betrayed Christ; the result was mass murder of Jews.
And Nazism is a Christian ideology based on nonsense of 'God' guiding evolution (thus something no atheist would believe) to create 'the superior master race' (themselves, of course) -typical uns ...[text shortened]... ing 'inferior' over another; there is no scientific evidence supporting either those two things.
We did not come from apes.
Originally posted by @humyWe did not come from apes.
It's a scientific fact that modern apes and humans share a common ape-like ancestor.
Take your denials of modern-day well-established proven scientific facts to either the Delusional forum or the Flat Earth forum.
Tell me, if evolution is true, then NO ape species would exist today...they would ALL be human.
It's nonsense.
Originally posted by @chaney3Why would that be? Clearly false and you make no sense. You must have some pretty delusional ignorant ideas what biological evolution means. Nothing in the theory of evolution implies evolution creating humans is inevitable, if that is what you are saying? Explain yourself...
if evolution is true, then NO ape species would exist today...they would ALL be human.
04 Aug 17
Originally posted by @humyNO species of ape should exist today. They should all be human.
Why would that be? Clearly false and you make no sense. You must have some pretty delusional ignorant ideas what biological evolution means. Nothing in the theory of evolution implies evolution creating humans is inevitable, if that is what you are saying? Explain yourself...
But, this is untrue, just as evolution is untrue.
04 Aug 17
Originally posted by @wildgrassIf you accept that much has been written on the topic--- and the conclusion of those writings is the affinity shared by the two realms of thought--- why are you asking for specific quotes related to the same?
The correlations thereof what? A correlation of ideas?
I don't challenge that research papers (and books) have been written on the subject. Research papers have been written on lots of subjects. Given his prolific writings and musings and speeches, I asked you: where does Hitler cite Darwin as an inspiration for his vision?
He talks about a lot of i ...[text shortened]... al selection as proposed by Darwin was his inspiration, he must have mentioned it at some point.
To make double sure?
Either you're agreeing with the research conclusions, or you oppose them on the basis of error.
Which is it?
04 Aug 17
Originally posted by @chaney3Exactly WHY should apes not exist today? Chimps, Gorillas, Bonobo's, Orangutans, here is a list of all of them:
NO species of ape should exist today. They should all be human.
But, this is untrue, just as evolution is untrue.
http://www.primate-sg.org/great_apes_in_the_world/
Your problem is you don't WANT to delve into evolution to see the way fossils are listed and how going back in the past we can see where one species started a new branch of the tree of life and humans are no different, our species goes back to Neandertals, Denosovans and such all shown by similarity to bones in us V them. Even extracting DNA from earlier extinct species.
You just choose not to accept any of that evidence, a very strong evidencial train.
We of course did not come from Apes. We evolved side by side and going back far enough in time we see creatures with features of modern humans mixed with features of apes so they were our common ancestor.
You and millions of other folk stuck in the creation myth just refuse to accept it.
That does not change the truth of evolution one bit.
04 Aug 17
Originally posted by @humyHitler largely rejected most of the Bible but hung onto only certain sections, like when Jesus drove the Jewish money changers out of the temple.
No, he was Christian and used the Bible as propaganda against the Jews because, according to the Bible, the Jews betrayed Christ; the result was mass murder of Jews.
And Nazism is a Christian ideology based on nonsense of 'God' guiding evolution (thus something no atheist would believe) to create 'the superior master race' (themselves, of course) -typical uns ...[text shortened]... ing 'inferior' over another; there is no scientific evidence supporting either those two things.
Hitler did not buy into the notion that Jesus was even Jewish, which is written in the Bible. Instead, he believed that Jesus was the illegitimate son of a Roman soldier.
04 Aug 17
Originally posted by @freakykbhNo it's not "make double sure". I am questioning the logic that what was written in the Origin of Species justifies genocide. I simply asked you to provide the key evidence that makes it make sense. That people have written about it is not evidence. There are people who write extensively about Hitler's motivations / inspirations, including Hitler himself, without once mentioning Darwin or natural selection. I'm willing to bet there are people who have written about how Darwin did NOT inspire Hitler. Your apparently unassailable argument sounds like you picked Darwin out of a hat and picked some atrocity at random and force-fed the conclusion that one caused the other. What's the important evidence used to make that conclusion?
If you accept that much has been written on the topic--- and the conclusion of those writings is the affinity shared by the two realms of thought--- why are you asking for specific quotes related to the same?
To make double sure?
Either you're agreeing with the research conclusions, or you oppose them on the basis of error.
Which is it?
The claim [from Whodey] was that "Hitler merely looked at the science of Darwin and decided to empty hospitals..". You have hedged that statement a bit to say that one depended on the other and that Hitler was inspired by Darwin. When I questioned it, you claimed it was beyond refute, yet you seem to have no evidence at all to justify it (except to say that it's been written about before, and that they taught evolution in German schools around the same time). Eladar brought up a very insightful point about Nietzsche, but his philosophy is very distinct from Darwin, and notably anti science.