Originally posted by twhitehead
He is not saying the ACE should be rejected as worthless, he is saying it should not be given any official recognition. Similarly, if a soviet student has a qualification based on a history course which contained significant amounts of false history, then that qualification should not be recognized - even if the student in question is perfectly capable of ...[text shortened]... ved as evidence that he has some knowledge in other subjects such as English literature, or Art.

I suspect that outside the creationist stance, regular sciences like physics or chemistry or atmospheric science or math, those kind of disciplines, would be taught the same as everywhere else.

Originally posted by sonhouse
I suspect that outside the creationist stance, regular sciences like physics or chemistry or atmospheric science or math, those kind of disciplines, would be taught the same as everywhere else.

judging from the ridiculous term "the God particle" that makes me groan in despair every time I hear it, not even the sciences are totally free of religious crap. We must cut out this contamination.

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No, that doesn't follow at all. I too support a universal ban of ACE, but I do not believe ACE has no worth at all. Just as I support a universal ban of all substandard education, but do not consider substandard education to be worthless.

Please note that Googlefudge has made an apparently *unqualified* statement.
Googlefudge did not assert that ACE should be rejected as a qualification
*only* in subjects (e.g. biology) directly related to 'creationist' pseudoscience.
Googlefudge seems to reject ACE as a qualification for every subject.
And again I agree with him. Note that we are not just talking about how we judge students for entry to university, but also whether or not we give official recognition to a qualification. Many universities do their selection on quite a number of parameters of which official qualifications are only one.
I agree with Googlefudge that the ACE qualification should be strongly discouraged, even if this means rejecting some students who might have done well at university.

First of all, many Soviet students were aware that much of what they were
taught on some subjects was propaganda and did not take it too seriously.
I know that. But how is it relevant?

Second, every country's schools seem to teach history with much nationalistic bias. I know that American students are routinely taught and believe much 'false history'.
Correct. And their history qualifications too should not be recognized by universities, until the courses are modified to meet a higher standard.

I can recall being compelled to listen (though I paid as little attention as
possible) to boring lectures about the great virtues of our country's leaders.
Being exposed to that propaganda did not mean that I swallowed it whole.
But your qualification that states that you learned that, should be considered worthless.

I too did Religious Education in school, in which they told us some outright lies, including the claim that animals cannot thinks. I do not think my qualification in Religious Education should be recognized.

I know that intelligent students can unlearn their early 'brainwashing'.
I fully agree. I have no doubt that students with ACE qualifications can do well. But their qualification (ACE) should still not be recognized as an indicator of their successful education.
If on the other hand there are sub qualifications, such as a certificate in Mathematics obtained at one of the schools in question, then the curriculum and exams need to be examined before deciding whether it should be recognized.

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My guess, and that guess is based on my personal experience, having gone to the First Lutheran Church/school from 1 to 8, I was told much the same thing but I sloughed it all off as soon as I got into HS.

I rather suspect most kids from that background would too. From what I saw at my own grade school was the kids there were universally suspicious of religious dogma, I saw a lot of rolled eyes during these periods of creationism crap.

So let them have their little scholarly victory in those schools, the kids will figure out who is right and who is wrong.